BeeThinking out of business, morphing into BeeBuild.com - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: "Bee Thinking" company problems

    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

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  3. #42
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    North Missouri, USA
    Posts
    129

    Default Re: "Bee Thinking" company problems

    I just found it before you posted. So I know some guys who are good with building (not so much fine wood working). I am going to see if they can mimic the joints to shrink the 10-frame width to 8-frame. If they can't, do you think it would work to cut the excess wood out of the middle of the side and glue it together and screw braces along the cut? Will that be strong enough to hold full frames?

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Caldwell TX USA
    Posts
    118

    Default Re: "Bee Thinking" company problems

    I remember this company. They were on the TV show "Shark Tank" maybe 5 years ago. I remember thinking the guy was a bit arrogant, but hey, he made it on TV so good for him. They didn't get a deal (good for the Sharks looking back) but I'm sure that was great advertising for them.

    Fast forward, I happened to be setup across from them at a Mother Earth Fair show last year. Same guys as on TV (went back to youtube & verified). They were definitely still arrogant, more-so in person. They thought they had the best stuff in the world, their prices reflected it, and they couldn't really explain to me why they were 20% more than others (at the same show). They had good quality, I'm not faulting that, but their prices were a bit high. But they did sell almost everything (times were good, everyone sold almost everything at that show).

    This year, same show, no Bee Thinking guys. I didn't miss them, but quite a few booths weren't there. Every other bee supply place was there (I think).

    Not sure of all the reasons they failed. Bad business model? Leadership issues? Growth/planning? Corruption/theft? Whole staff won the lotto? I wish all involved recovery and success in the future, both the people in the business and their customers who were shorted.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Posts
    76

    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    Quote Originally Posted by ruthiesbees View Post
    The kits I buy are in no way "cheap", and the first one I bought is going on 4 years with no signs of decay. Pine hives, just like yours, John. I do like to paint them festive colors so they become "garden art". It has a gabled metal roof, 19" topbars with anchored comb guides, screened bottom floor with slide out IPM board. I only choose to add the windows myself because I can do it for less than $10. Assembly on the kit is minimal, as in 18 screws for the hive and 4 nails for the roof. These are a nice way to ease into beekeeping. If someone wants to convert over to Langstroth equipment, the bars slip right in there, although most people that I help get started, love their topbar hives and stick with that kind of beekeeping.
    Ruth, I really appreciate your recommendation for Beeline top bar hives. Since Beethinking left I found myself without a source and a need to do some splits. They're really great to work with and were fast in getting me what I needed. For anyone using beethinking top bars, the bars are only about 17 1/4", so shorter than the beeline, but rest perfectly at the top of the beeline body. You do need to trim about 1.5 to 2 inches of comb off the bottom though as the body is more shallow.

    I do miss the western red cedar beethinking used, I'm a sucker for cedar with several coatings of tung oil, although I'm sure the pine will look good as it weathers in. They also did do some really great design and detailed milling.

    Here are some beethinking top bars next to one of my new beelines as I'm doing surgery to split from one into the other.

    IMG_20170607_162602.jpg

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Crystal Water, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    1,211

    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    I had no dealing with the company in questions but I have been in business for some 35 + years.
    No answer on their phone: if banks are the same in the US as here they would not even be able to access their phone
    Did not change message: see above
    Did not send goods: see above

    As I say, I don't know the people and have no association with any of them.
    Here in Australia I'm getting offer after offer of discounts for Flow Hives. I too sell bee equipment. I MAY give a discount at the end of the season.

    Did anybody expect the hype of a couple of years ago to continue? I see second hand Flow Hives for sale.

    There will be a market for any product. It will find a level. This shop took a risk and it did not work out.

    I feel sad for them but that, my friend, is business.

    The Flow Hive people collected their funds via crowd funding , not from a bank!
    from the Bee House -http://ecologicalsolutions.com.au/bees/?page_id=8
    40 years - +/- 20 H - TF - Subtropical

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Penobscot County, ME, USA
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    1,206

    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    Quote Originally Posted by max2 View Post
    The Flow Hive people collected their funds via crowd funding , not from a bank!
    And minimized their risk of the cost of capital expenditures by getting another company to go on the hook for tooling up to manufacture the product. It was slightly more elegant, though less long-lived than a stock scam, and adroitly managed to avoid legal pitfalls. Gotta hand it to them, it was a real nice score.
    If you want to be successful, study successful people and do what they do.
    Zone 4a/b

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    12,001

    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    Tapcomb lists its office address as Portland, Oregon, where Flow Hive also has a base.
    http://www.watoday.com.au/small-busi...11-gviyzg.html

    Wonder if this is BeeThinking.
    Regards, Barry

  9. #48
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Benton, Ky
    Posts
    106

    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    lol.. Makes you wonder considering Flow also has a office in Portland and were somewhat connected to Bee
    Thinking.. This whole thing stinks
    Quality Top Bar Hives and Accessories
    http://www.organicbeehives.com/

  10. #49
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Benton, Ky
    Posts
    106

    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    Copied from their facebook page. Apparently customers won't receive the orders they paid for. Sounds like they didn't have many customers at the end.

    Dear Bee Thinking customers and community,
    We are incredibly sorry to announce that Bee Thinking, LLC has come to an end. A number of insurmountable, simultaneous problems converged over the last year and a half, and though we tried ceaselessly to overcome the circumstances, we ultimately could not.
    During this past month we watched the last act unfold with lawyers and bankers, unable to communicate as we were hoping on the slim chance we could revive the company and would thus be able to respond to existing customer inquiries with positive news.
    Though we attempted earlier on to obtain a capital investment, and even appeared on Shark Tank, we were not able to do so during a time the company dearly needed it due to unprecedented growth. Not securing an investment, coupled with experiencing late delivery and receiving low grade products from a manufacturer two years in a row, put the company in an unrecoverable position. We are sorry that we have let everyone down: the customers who did not receive a purchase or a response, valued employees who have had to find other jobs, vendors that won’t get paid, and family members who lost their investments.
    We produced great products, had the greatest customers, and the best, most loyal employees. We are now closed and have ceased operations as a business. The remaining bits and pieces of Bee Thinking, LLC have been auctioned off by lenders.
    While our futures remain undecided, we hope at some point to be able to be involved again with the beekeeping community we’ve valued and loved. We still believe in supporting the health and habitat of bees, sharing knowledge, spreading bee and pollinator education, and taking sustainable steps towards rebuilding and fostering a healthy environment and world.
    This last year has been an incredible struggle both personally and professionally. While we remain dedicated co-parents, and deeply admiring and valuing of one another, our marriage also succumbed to the incredible stresses and unsustainable time demands necessary for the company in recent years. We very amicably split last year in order to create healthier lives for ourselves and our young son.
    We have loved Bee Thinking, LLC, we’ve dedicated ourselves to it completely for 9 years, and now it is gone. Our customers and employees were the key to our success, and we've failed both. We are crushed. We are deeply sorry we could not find a way through.
    -- Jill & Matt
    Quality Top Bar Hives and Accessories
    http://www.organicbeehives.com/

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Vancouver, Washington
    Posts
    266

    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    I try to be both compassionate and forgiving, but i also know "spin" when i see it. The disconnect between what Bee Thinking was presenting to its customers and what we now know was going on behind the scenes could not be more extreme. Up until no more than two weeks before they made their situation public, the mailers that were going out were all unicorns and sunshine: Announcing our new frame design! A mead tasting party! A new instructional video! Our summertime education schedule! All the while, when you'd call to follow-up on an undelivered or incomplete order, some lame excuse would be offered (that was before they finally stopped answering their phones). Then, the house of cards collapsed and seemingly out of nowhere, they instructed customers to issue chargebacks with their banks in order to get their money back. In our case, it was too late to do that with one of our orders so that's hundreds of dollars - gone. And i know we're not alone.

    I get that a few hundred dollars in no way compares to personal and professional tragedy. But my compassion is sorely compromised when the wounds appear to have been self-inflicted and many innocent people were caught in the crossfire. And now it appears they may be "re-inventing" themselves in some other incarnation? With what money will they be able to accomplish this? It all just doesn't pass the smell test. And the sad part is that if we knew they were in trouble, if they were honest with their customers, if they seemed to be making every effort to put things right, we would have understood and been supportive. But they never gave their customers that opportunity.

    /rant off

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Brookville, PA
    Posts
    332

    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    Quote Originally Posted by crabbcatjohn View Post
    . . . . . . . Not securing an investment, coupled with experiencing late delivery and receiving low grade products from a manufacturer two years in a row, put the company in an unrecoverable position. We are sorry that we have let everyone down: the customers who did not receive a purchase or a response, valued employees who have had to find other jobs, vendors that won’t get paid, and family members who lost their investments.
    We produced great products, had the greatest customers, and the best, most loyal employees. We are now closed and have ceased operations as a business.
    While our futures remain undecided, we hope at some point to be able to be involved again with the beekeeping community we’ve valued and loved.
    We have loved Bee Thinking, LLC, we’ve dedicated ourselves to it completely for 9 years, and now it is gone. Our customers and employees were the key to our success, and we've failed both. We are crushed. We are deeply sorry we could not find a way through.
    -- Jill & Matt
    So . . . . it isn't their fault - it's the manufacturer's fault that gave them "low grade products" is the reason they went out of business. (WOW!)

    "We hope at some point to be involved again with the beekeeping community." (As in creating another business so you can screw your customer's again? Eh . . . . . don't even bother!)

    So, even though they continued to take orders (and their customer's money) and knowing they probably wouldn't be able to ship their products to the customer (hoping upon hope they could) - they still gave lame excuses for why orders hadn't been shipped - that is how they treat their "greatest customers"?

    Their message isn't "spin" - it's outright lies!!!!!

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Penobscot County, ME, USA
    Posts
    1,206

    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    Quote Originally Posted by crabbcatjohn View Post
    "We are now closed and have ceased operations as a business. The remaining bits and pieces of Bee Thinking, LLC have been auctioned off by lenders."-- Jill & Matt
    Looks like my 'translation' was, as Gordon Ramsay would say, "Spot on." I should have a PhD. for my education in 'Weasel Speak'.

    My sympathy to those who paid their hard-earned dollars and got nothing in return.
    If you want to be successful, study successful people and do what they do.
    Zone 4a/b

  14. #53
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    4,211

    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    Why is such a story "sticky" worthy?
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  15. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    CUYAHOGA FALLS OHIO
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    11

    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    Just new to the Beesource forum and I was curious in that when I had gone to to their site everything was sold out and that bee built was coming soon I did some search querys and found this forum and the topic. So I will give you my experience with beethinking in that I had placed an order for some Warre'and 8 frame lang equipment which exceded several hundred dollars in February and was getting frustrated in that all I received from them was 2 warre' hive bottoms which were poorly assembled and would not allow a hive box to sit flat. I inquired about the lang equipment which had been ordered in early February and it was still not ready in mid April? So I cancelled the order and from what I am hearing was one of the lucky ones or one and was even able to receive a RMA shipping label from them to send back the warre' bottoms. I always dealt with an Emily there and she always responded to my calls uasally a day later assuming that the first conversation that I had wth Her reference that they were completly swamped with orders no doubt so I figured they were busy with the delayed calls back. Thank goodness I did not get screwed and I really feel for the folks that did and there is no excuse for it and qouting silly DC Comics qoutes at the begining of this thread does not get them off the hook or minimize with what they did with other peoples money maybe lets look up the definition of theft, fraud, and victim instead of DC Comics qoutes. Check out THE WARRE' STORE real quality products not farmed out to the lowest bidder built on site by real craftsman.

  16. #55
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Toms River, NJ
    Posts
    25

    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    Beethinking.com now redirects you to BeeBuilt.com in the address bar with a small 'coming soon' notice at the top of the 'old' beethinking.com home page. Hopefully those with open orders get filled and those looking for a refund get their money back before beebuilt really starts up.

  17. #56
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    10,840

    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    Here is BeeBuilt's "About Us" page ...
    Bee Built is the world's first beekeeping supplier specializing in foundationless Top Bar Hives, Warre hives, and Langstroth Hives made from sustainably-harvested wood. We focus on providing our customers with high-quality, sustainably built products at reasonable prices.

    All of our beehives are crafted at our mill in Portland, Oregon using kiln dried Western Red Cedar and sugar pine from the Pacific Northwest. We use these same products in our own apiaries and we love to pass on our knowledge of natural beekeeping to beekeepers new and old.

    We take pride in the hives that we build and are dedicated to supporting our customers and our products. If you have special instructions regarding your order, or if you have questions regarding hive management and beekeeping, please let us know by phone, e-mail or in person at our retail location in Portland, Oregon.

    https://beebuilt.com/pages/about-us

    And, courtesy of Archive.org ("The Wayback Machine" ), the similar page from Beethinking, archived in March 2016 ...
    Bee Thinking is the world's first beekeeping supplier specializing in foundationless Top Bar Hives, Warre hives, and Cedar Langstroth Hives. We focus on providing our customers with high-quality, sustainably built products at reasonable prices.

    All of our beehives are crafted at our mill in Portland, Oregon using kiln dried Western Red Cedar from the Pacific Northwest. We use these same products in our own apiaries and we love to pass on our knowledge of natural beekeeping to beekeepers new and old.

    We take pride in the hives that we build and are dedicated to supporting our customers and our products. If you have a special instructions regarding your order or if you have questions regarding hive management and beekeeping, please let us know by phone, e-mail or in person at our shop in Portland, Oregon.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20160326...pages/about-us
    I, for one, am wondering exactly what is different, other than a new business name?



    ... fool me once ... ... ...
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  18. #57
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    CUYAHOGA FALLS OHIO
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    I agree with Graham,
    as stated in an earlier post I was fortunate to receive my refund from Beestinking.and I would BEE careful in placing any new orders with Beebull and as they sayflies.

    Tom
    Last edited by tckmet; 07-18-2017 at 11:27 PM.

  19. #58
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    12,001

    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    Quote Originally Posted by AstroBee View Post
    Why is such a story "sticky" worthy?
    Because there are customers who paid money and never received the product or refund. It's wise to keep up with what is happening with this company.
    Regards, Barry

  20. #59
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Scott county, Arkansas, Usa
    Posts
    1,446

    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    The difference in the two statements is the addition of sugar pine to the BeeBuilt statement and they changed their "shop" to "retail location".


    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  21. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Posts
    76

    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    Probably the archive was an older one, as bee thinking had just added the sugar pine offering this spring. I would guess they are identical except for the name.

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