BeeThinking out of business, morphing into BeeBuild.com
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  1. #1
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    Exclamation BeeThinking out of business, morphing into BeeBuild.com

    I see the Portland Metro bee club and the Portland Urban group says that Bee thinking Portland is pretty much going under and looking to sell out the last of their inventory the next couple of weeks. Too bad but maybe they will give some deals on their showroom stock.
    Last edited by Barry; 05-21-2017 at 06:47 AM.
    “Why do we fall, sir? So that we might learn to pick ourselves up” Alfred Pennyworth Batman Begins (2005)

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET

    I guess this explains why the order i placed at the beginning of March was never delivered (although it doesn't explain why i haven't been able to get a call back whenever i've attempted to follow-up on that order).

  4. #3
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    Default Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET

    Quote Originally Posted by minz View Post
    I see the Portland Metro bee club and the Portland Urban group says that Bee thinking Portland is pretty much going under and looking to sell out the last of their inventory the next couple of weeks. Too bad but maybe they will give some deals on their showroom stock.
    Any reason given as to Why the are going out of business?

  5. #4
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    Seattle
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    Default Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET

    Quote Originally Posted by minz View Post
    I see the Portland Metro bee club and the Portland Urban group says that Bee thinking Portland is pretty much going under and looking to sell out the last of their inventory the next couple of weeks. Too bad but maybe they will give some deals on their showroom stock.
    That's unfortunate. I have previously ordered Bee Thinking equipment through PerfectBee. They are a Bee Thinking dealer, I guess (I go to PerfectBee their since I learned about them first and their customer service and prices are excellent). I have enjoyed the products (good quality) but just noticed that PerfectBee seems to have removed all Bee Thinking products from their own store. They are also a Brushy Mountain dealer, though, so they are still up and running.

    Meanwhile, the Bee Thinking site still seems to be taking orders with no hints of any issues. I hope no one is going to get burnt by this (new customers placing orders that don't get fulfilled).

  6. #5
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    Default Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveW View Post
    Meanwhile, the Bee Thinking site still seems to be taking orders with no hints of any issues. I hope no one is going to get burnt by this (new customers placing orders that don't get fulfilled).
    I've been a loyal customer for many years, but the only thing i'm getting from them now is radio silence. I see no reason why they'd treat their "new customers" any better than they're treating their old ones.

  7. #6
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    Default Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET

    Quote Originally Posted by ruthiesbees View Post
    Any reason given as to Why the are going out of business?
    No reason given, but I have some speculation. I never understood what was necessarily special or different about any product they made. Certainly a better quality of wood than the big players in the market. But is there a real demand for great quality woodware? A painted box of knotted pine will last over a decade.

    Besides the quality of wood, what was new, innovative or special about anything they did?

  8. #7
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    Default Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET

    Since we are speculating ... here's mine ...

    Bee Thinking was the 'contracted' USA manufacturer/distributor of boxes for hive bodies to go with Flow frame/hives per various reports. Perhaps that ramp up/manufacturing/ ramp down for Flow didn't go as smoothly or as profitably for Bee Thinking as they had projected.

    Also, the now storefront presence of Brushy Mtn (via Ruhl Be Supply) in the Portland area market isn't likely to have had a positive impact upon Bee Thinking. Brushy has significant presence in the US market and their volume purchasing is quite capable of being a disruptive force in the Portland market. Note that in addition to the significant market population living on the Oregon side, the 0% Oregon sales tax vs the 8.4% sales tax on the Washington side of the border make the Portland side merchants a more significant force than they would be with an equal sales tax situation.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  9. #8
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    Default Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET

    here is what is posted:
    I found this in a post on PUB's Facebook page. It's a confirmation of sorts from Matt Reed owner of Bee Thinking:
    "We're doing everything we can to avoid closing, but it may be too late at this point. Some major financial challenges in the last year and a half are so far proving too great to overcome. If we can salvage it, we will, but our first priority has been to get people bees. This is why we reached out to Brushy/Ruhl to come up with a solution."
    “Why do we fall, sir? So that we might learn to pick ourselves up” Alfred Pennyworth Batman Begins (2005)

  10. #9
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    Default Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET

    Here is a response about them trying to get people their bees:
    Matt Reed We've already reached out to the 80 who were scheduled to pick up this past weekend. The 200 or so who are scheduled to pick up next week we'll be reaching out to today/tomorrow. Ruhl/Brushy will be taking over and we'll communicate the plan via e-mail and phone. We're doing everything we can to ensure everyone still gets bees, regardless of what happens to Bee Thinking.
    “Why do we fall, sir? So that we might learn to pick ourselves up” Alfred Pennyworth Batman Begins (2005)

  11. #10
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    Default Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET

    Maybe I should remove the previous posts since I found one from the owner himself describing the situation. Sorry to clog the thread, I am not much of a FB person so have not been following it. here is a cut and paste:
    Matt Reed
    May 12 at 11:09pm
    With profound sadness I must announce that Bee Thinking will almost certainly close in the next week. We've given everything to avoid this, and we've not given up entirely yet, but we don't see another path at this point, so we're preparing for the worst.
    Thanks to all who've supported us for almost 9 years as we've grown from our garage to almost 50 employees manufacturing thousands of beehives and promoting natural beekeeping throughout the world. Thanks also to our amazing employees who've stuck with us through a tumultuous year -- we couldn't have made it this far without you.
    Our retail store will be open at least through the weekend with everything 40% off. Mead is 30% off. We have a lot of pine Langstroth equipment, jackets, gloves, tools, brushes, gifts, mead. We are completely out of Warre and Top Bar Hive woodenware.
    “Why do we fall, sir? So that we might learn to pick ourselves up” Alfred Pennyworth Batman Begins (2005)

  12. #11
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    Default Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET

    It's frustrating to me that Bee Thinking, which has pretty much ceased to do business and had a big closing down sale over the weekend at their store in Portland, continues to operate their web site, taking money from people with no plans to send products. I believe they told people to reach out to their credit card companies for a chargeback, because they won't be offering refunds. That's very frustrating and, with no hint whatsoever on their web site of the situation, I suspect a good number of people are getting burned.

    It would take under 10 mins to bring that site down (and even less to at least put a notice on there). They announced last week they were going out of business but did so only in a small Facebook group, as has been noted here.

  13. #12
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    Default Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET

    I agree, CliveW. It's also frustrating that they're apparently selling items i paid for but never received to other people in some sort of "going out of business" sale. Some of the items i never received (but paid for months ago) are still listed as available on their web site, so presumably, they're still "in stock" and are in effect being sold twice. Combine that with the chargeback notice and the whole thing smacks of theft and credit card fraud. But i'm just speculating ...

  14. #13
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    Default Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET

    so they went from being on shark tank to closing shop in a few months?

  15. #14
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    Default Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET

    No, they were on Shark Tank two years ago. Even though the sharks declined, they were featured a year or so later in the follow up program, since Daymond John had an interest and installed a significant number of their hives in his garden.

    I don't think they will be appearing again though.

  16. #15
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    Default BeeThinking is holding out for an answer from their bank

    I saw this on a review on BeeThinking's Facebook page:

    "Ariel, I appreciate this post. We have not officially announced anything because we've been holding out hope we can get a deal worked out between our bank and our investors as quickly as possible. This has taken many weeks longer than we thought it would. If it does work out, we may be able to resume operations, get our staff back, and get orders back out, along with refunds. We don't have any staff left, as you've mentioned, and right now we're simply trying to keep what's left of the ship afloat as long as possible as we wait for the bank. We can't currently enter our warehouse to fulfill orders, otherwise we would be. As I've had to let go over 45 employees I cared for deeply in the last month, I'm doing my best to respond to as many calls and e-mails as I possibly can while paying critical bills that will enable the company to resume operations as quickly as possible -- this is the only way we'll be able to get orders out or refunds. Our website is not taking more orders as everything is marked out of stock. We never took money for orders we didn't think we were going to be able to fill, as we thought our solution would come through more quickly. Now we're stuck in a terrible position for everyone involved, with no real solution until the bank budges."

    https://www.facebook.com/ariel.young...205721181332:0

  17. #16
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    Default Re: BeeThinking is holding out for an answer from their bank

    ...we've been holding out hope we can get a deal worked out between our bank and our investors as quickly as possible.
    Translation: "We're [spitting] into the wind."

    This has taken many weeks longer than we thought it would. If it does work out, we may be able to resume operations, get our staff back, and get orders back out, along with refunds. We don't have any staff left, as you've mentioned, and right now we're simply trying to keep what's left of the ship afloat as long as possible as we wait for the bank.
    Translation: "We know it's hopeless, but we want people to think that we still have a chance so that they will have a longer period to get used to the idea that they won't be getting their money back, and pass the blame on to the bank and make it their fault so they won't be too angry with us."

    We can't currently enter our warehouse to fulfill orders, otherwise we would be.
    Death knell. Warehouse/stock seized and locked out. Auction to benefit secured creditors in the works.

    ...I'm doing my best to respond to as many calls and e-mails as I possibly can while paying critical bills that will enable the company to resume operations as quickly as possible -- this is the only way we'll be able to get orders out or refunds.
    Delusional and/or another attempt to soften the blow for those who are getting screwed.

    ...We never took money for orders we didn't think we were going to be able to fill, as we thought our solution would come through more quickly.
    Weasel words. Information in this thread indicates money taken and product not delivered, but they want people to think that they had no clue that they wouldn't be able to deliver. The only conclusions that can be reached are that they are either lying or stupid, neither is good.

    Now we're stuck in a terrible position for everyone involved, with no real solution until the bank budges."
    Another attempt to foist blame onto "the bank". If people get screwed it's the bank's fault for not bailing them out.

    ('Translations' and my opinions based on years of experience reading company PR while working in concert with the SEC to shut down stock frauds.)

    Stick a fork in it, it's done...unless somebody can pull a miracle out of his butt and convince an 'angel' to float them a loan...but I doubt the odds of that happening are very good.
    If you want to be successful, study successful people and do what they do.
    Zone 4a/b

  18. #17
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    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    This article talks about the Flow Hive / BeeThinking deal http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/...hotos.amp.html

    A year ago:

    "Now, with an order for 65,000 hives from an Australian company called Flow Hive, Bee Thinking is investing $500,000 in new equipment as a supplement to the overworked mill that fabricates its products."

  19. #18
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    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    I wondered if there wasn't a connection between this business crises and Flow hive.
    Regards, Barry

  20. #19
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    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    Quote Originally Posted by OffordScott View Post
    This article talks about the Flow Hive / BeeThinking deal http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/...hotos.amp.html

    A year ago:

    "Now, with an order for 65,000 hives from an Australian company called Flow Hive, Bee Thinking is investing $500,000 in new equipment as a supplement to the overworked mill that fabricates its products."
    I can see how that all unfolded- caught up in the flow hive hype, they mortgaged themselves to the hilt, thinking it would be a smashing success and counting on repeat orders to pay the note. I have to wonder what the size of the order was this year...or if there even was one.

    Chinese copies are available on ebay for a third of the price, and the honeyflow.com.au web page boasts that the hives are "Proudly Made In Australia"...I'm guessing that there was no repeat order, or a minimal one, which left that expensive equipment sitting idle with insufficient production to cover the note. I don't see any official documentation of current sales figures (after a cursory search).

    Another victim of the hype. The Flow Hive people got a sweet deal (pun intended)- someone else went on the hook for a half million dollars of production equipment, leaving them with no risk associated with the plant. The Sharks would have been smarter, the Bee Thinking people should have been smarter.

    What's ironic, is that the linked article was posted under the 'Sustainable Business' heading.
    If you want to be successful, study successful people and do what they do.
    Zone 4a/b

  21. #20
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    Default Re: BeeThinking going out of business

    The issue with the bank is risk. If the bank sees the security for the secured loan going to less than the loan, they can push the dissolution button (there are limits and defenses, but I'm not conversant with them). Or they can risk their depositors money and let the operating concern continue to operate on the theory that the business may pull out of bankruptcy back into "going concern" territory. At the 99% threshold, the bank may lose essentially nothing by dissolving the company and forcing liquidation. But the company owners and employees lose big. There is no incentive for the bank to take on risk. If they are under water already and may recover entirely, it becomes their judgement call. So, as I see it, there can be conditions under which a bank may "fail to act benevolently." They have no obligation to benevolence. But they are then not a community bank, with the employees and owners among their depositors. But, oh!, with non-local banks, there is no longer community banking pretty much anywhere. And so "risk aversion" wins.

    I'm not saying this is bad. I'm just sharing my observations. I may be wrong. I have a habit that way.
    "I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong." (heard often from the late David Sebree) Still making them, myself

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