Help for a Carni package
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    139

    Default Help for a Carni package

    3 weeks ago this Sunday I installed a package of Italians in a framed Warre and that Thursday a package of Carnies in another framed Warre. The Italians took off filling the original box to 75% or so in 2 weeks and a almost perfect brood pattern. I added another box then and it looks like they are just starting to build down. My Carnies however have not made comb. They only have 4 frames that are half drawn maybe and I gave them a half frame of cut out to start. The queen has layed a small brood area on two frames but much of the comb is pollen and uncapped honey. I have been feeding them 1 to 1 since I got them. Stopped feeding the Italians a week ago. I know the bees that came with the Carni queen were most likely not hers and would like to give her a chance. We are having a really wet and cool spring so there is still good food sources around. I'm really tempted to locate my Italian honey and steal one of her capped brood frames and swap it out for an empty or at least one of the less drawn out frames in the Carni hive. Just shake the bees off and swap. What's your thoughts. I don't want to end up hurting my Italians and I'm afraid they arn't established enough yet to take the hit. Thanks!

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    lafargeville ny usa
    Posts
    2,275

    Default Re: Help for a Carni package

    re-queen with an italian queen from the same source as the hive doing well.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Cullman, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    1,240

    Default Re: Help for a Carni package

    I like my carni mutts. I would prop them up with a frame of brood, and/ or order another carni queen to.repla e.her , or to start a nuc with. Good luck ...CE

    Edit : be sure to have robbing screens in place for these gentle bees.
    Started summer of 2013, just another new guy, tinkering with bees.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: Help for a Carni package

    Perfect bee day. 83 degrees and no wind. Went into my Carnies first to make sure it was queened still and she was doing all she could with her resources. What comb there was full of capped brood and eggs just only maybe 4 frames total of comb combined. Started going threw looking for her and even marked wasn't seeing her. Got to the last frame closest to me, only 1/8 drawn with a dozen bees on it and there she was laying eggs. Shy she is not. 3ed time to see her and she acts like she could care less. Perfect spot for her as well so slide everything back and just set the quell on top. Run over to my once mean as a cornered rat Italians and opened them up. Really believe she came with Russians since they sell Russian nuks because now that they have been replaced the new bees are typical Italian in temperament. Every, and I mean every frame had capped brood. 4 of them solid both sides and very little honey anywhere. Why this thing hasn't tried to swarm I don't know. Good genetics I guess because most would have queen cells every where. All frames were completely drawn and after a week absolutely no attempt to move down even in a used box. I looked carefully and saw no queen cells but there is always a possibility. This queen is marked as well and finally found her exact same as the Carni on the last frame next to me. Grabbed a full frame of brood and set it to the side then took a frame with less capped brood on it and moved it down to the lower box with bees. Replaced the missing frames then shook off the nurse bees on the full capped frame and stuck it in the center of the Carni brood chamber. Hopefully I have accomplished giving a much needed boost in bees and comb to my Carnies, opened up the brood chamber on the Italian to put off swarming and caused them to start moving down into the lower box. A lot of objectives so we will see. For a second year beek with only an hour between sleep and working graveyards it all went pretty sweet. The Italian hive is store bought with windows so will take a peak at that lower box when I get home at 4 this morning.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Cullman, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    1,240

    Default Re: Help for a Carni package

    You speak of moving a frame to get the bees to move down, usually we swap the brood chamber to the bottom & let the bees move up. It is probably.
    It is probably warm enough, & it sounds like your hive is full enough to inter-leave undrawn frames between brood frames ... gives the bees the impression if lots of room, plus they draw nice comb that way.
    Started summer of 2013, just another new guy, tinkering with bees.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: Help for a Carni package

    Well this is the 2nd time I'm trying to follow the Warre method and get them to move down for brood and stores up top. They refused last year, swarmed and didn't requeen. I thought about checkerboard but only 2nd year and still not sure what I can get away with. So far so good. The Italians have finished drawing the rest of that frame I moved down and we're stringing bees from the top of the next frame this morning. Carnies seem happy and packaging pollen and that capped should be little nurses with holes for momma to pop eggs in. Probably take a peak Sunday afternoon in both to check for signs of swarm in Italians and general health in Carnies.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: Help for a Carni package

    Just an update I did a sugar roll on my Carnies and Italian Russians. Got one mite off 1/2 cup bees on the Italians and 4 off the Carni bees. Been OAV them every 5 days. They have 2 more treatments but are really taking off. Have not gone into the hive again while treating but will soon as they have filled the top box and only have a couple frames left in the bottom box. I have one inch hole in the side of each box with a cork so I can keep tabs with out always going into it. The Carnies are in a hive I built. It's Warre dimensions outside but deep Langstroth in depth. Got tired of cutting the side frame pieces. Thought it was stupid to toss good cedar and all the extra work on the frames. Pluse the bees could care less!lol Really looking forward to going into it this next week.
    Went into the Italian Russians yesterday. I call them that as they were sold as package as Italians but the same farm also sells Russian nuks and these girls are nasty witches when you fool with their hive. As long as you don't try and open box you can sit next to it and watch all you want but last time I made the mistake of not putting Tyvex under my bee suit top. Got nailed 9 times threw it. These girls have just exploded though. Expanded it to 3 boxes a week and a half ago and as you can see they have drawn it out except for 2 frames and they were measuring them out when we went in. The original 3 boxes were bought and are actual Warre dimensions but the box we added yesterday is one of my own so it will take longer to fill. Just amazing how fast they went from 3 lbs package to this in a little less 2 months. Depending on how dry the Summer hear in Arkansas is I may have a little honey this Fall from these gals! This time I didn't move any frames down so will keep close tabs to see if the move down on their own.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Posts
    1,080

    Default Re: Help for a Carni package

    Thanks for the update. Since I started my Warre I've been very curious to see how well others are doing. I'm glad to see that your Carnis finally started going, that was what I put in my Warre. I really like your idea of using Langstroth depth frames instead of the 210mm deep Warre boxes, but if I did that my other Warre frames wouldn't be interchangeable between Warre boxes and I made enough frames for five boxes but only have four boxes at present. I don't think I'll add a second Warre. The one I have has been interesting to see the difference.

    That is a good looking hive and a good looking dog.
    Zone 5B

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: Help for a Carni package

    I actually moved one of the "short" frames from my Italian into the taller Carni box and they haven't built excess comb in that space between bottom of frame and the top of the lower frame so no foul. I'll just rotate it out at a later date. I'll probably get to about 5 or 6 hives and call it good. I'll keep this nice Bee Thanking hive in my front yard where it is. One inch cedar with about 4 coats of tung oil so it should out last me but the rest I'm building all Langstroth deep. Got to finish up a set of frames tomorrow for a deep for the Carnies. Worried about them swarming as hive activities are exploding the last week or so. As I said I can look in the side but one side only looking across the frames. I love these Carnies as far as temperament. I don't think you could hardly make one sting you. Will be interesting to see if they really explode like people say. Got boxes ready and looks like the remains of the hurricane is centering us so plenty of water still before the summer drought hits. Dog was to show size of hive. Thanks for the comment. He's Schutzhund 3 FH1 titled. Look it up if bored!!lol

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