My new Warre and busy girls - Page 2
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    Salt Lake City, UT
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    1,088

    Default Re: My new Warre - So ends the experiment

    They absconded!!!

    This fall has been unusually warm. Last weekend, the Sunday after Thanksgiving it was 70°. So I checked on all my hives. The Warre was full of busy girls doing last minute foraging.

    It was still 65° today, but I decided to go ahead and put on the quilt boxes. And that was when I discovered the Warre was completely empty. There were four dead bees on the bottom board, none in the hive. Sometime in the last five days they bolted. It had not been robbed yet. The top two boxes were still packed wall to wall with honey, the bottom box had some brood under a honey dome.

    I considered giving some of it to my other hives (all Langstroths) but the compatibility problem is the main reason I decided not to continue with a Warre once this hive was gone. I decided to harvest. It's a dark but tasty honey.

    I was hoping to make some queens from this queen next spring as she was a great queen with gentle girls.

    So there I was being happy we had a very warm fall and the girls were still foraging - usually there is a foot of snow on the ground by now - when it occurred to me that had it been a normal December weekend they would probably not have flown.

    I'll leave it out as a swarm trap next spring, but if no one takes up residence I have no plans at this point to put a package in it.

    I'm building a long Langstroth this winter, plus I've got a dozen hive boxes cut out and sitting in my shop waiting for assembly, so growth is going to to there.

    The Warre was a pretty hive, and it was neat to watch the bees build beautiful comb and round out and finish the bottoms. And I am going to copy that feeder for my Langstroths because it absolutely did not drown bees.

    So ends my Warre experiment.

    warre.jpg
    Zone 5B

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Rib Lake WI
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    1,705

    Default Re: My new Warre - So ends the experiment

    They absconded. That sends me a warning did you monitor for mites? If not how do you know they absconded and didn't just collapse from mites?

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
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    3,722

    Default Re: My new Warre - So ends the experiment

    Hate to say it JC, but you just described the classic signs of a mite collapse. Autopsy the remaining capped brood and look for mites on the worker pupae. Check the tops of the empty cells for white specks. The crash happens very fast so one week is reasonable. You should probably give your other hives a dose of OA to kill any mites from this hive that they are bringing home.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: My new Warre and busy girls

    Jc
    My warre still has bees comming and going but I can't see how it is going to make it through winter. It just never really got to critical mass during build up. I can't believe it even has bees in it. Sorry to hear about your hive. Me putting bees in mine was kinda a fluke too. I was sorta leaving it out incase a swarm moved in when one of my hives swarmed and the warre was just sitting there and so. I guess if my warre dies and I get a swarm before wax moth and stuff get the small amount of comb, I will probly re-fill it but like you say, it is harder to work with when you have all langs and even if you had all warres, It is harder to fix problims by moving around resources. They are pretty and if you just don't care about looking inside and just get what you get, I still kinda like the ideal.
    Its fun.
    Again, your hive looked good and it is a shame but I bet the honey is nice and to me crush and strain is easier then extracting.
    Cheers
    gww
    Ps At least you got honey, if mine dies, all I will get is sugar water this year.
    zone 5b

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UT
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    1,088

    Default Re: My new Warre and busy girls

    Thangs for the feedback guys.

    Yeah, I did consider mite collapse. The Warre doesn't fit my OA vaporizer and I never did get an adapter built. (another of the compatibility problems). My fault for letting summer fun get in the way too much this year - missed a critical re-queening of another hive as a result, but fun is important too I guess.


    The bottom board of the Warre was really quite clean, I looked for mites and only saw a few. I haven't pulled frames from the lowest box (where the brood was) yet but I'll take a good look and inspect a few of the brood cells as well.

    I checked the boards under the Lang screens in my other hives yesterday and although I did see some mites, there weren't a lot. I've still got some Apivar strips and I'm planning on putting them in my Langs today (it'll be 65 this afternoon) just to make sure. I know that means extracting the strips in mid January, but better than loosing another.

    On a side note, I've let the first of the Warre boxes strain overnight. It took quite a while for the combs to come up to room temperature. Holy cow! Those Warre boxes hold a lot of honey for their small size! One box half filled my five gallon strainer, and it is still straining. I did not expect to get that much from one box. Its kind of gratifying to see so much honey from a small box.
    Zone 5B

  7. #26
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    Feb 2015
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    Salt Lake City, UT
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    Default Re: My new Warre and busy girls

    Update:

    It looks like my Warre is back in use. I caught my second swarm in as many days (this one came from one of my own hives. And now I'm out of Langstroth gear, so it went into the Warre. Hopefully I got the queen, because giving them a frame of eggs isn't going to be so easy.
    Zone 5B

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: My new Warre and busy girls

    JC
    Msl posted a really neat picture of how he just took a peice of comb with the right age larva and stuck it on a schiskabob type stick and put it down between the top bars for the bees to build queen cells on. I bet you have a queen though. My warre finally died end of winter. It was my only hive that did not build up durring summer or make it till spring. I let the other hives rob it of the tiny bit of stores it had left and put some lemon grass oil in it and I will see how my season goes on whether I fill it again.
    Good luck
    gww
    zone 5b

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
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    1,854

    Default Re: My new Warre and busy girls

    Quote Originally Posted by JConnolly View Post
    Hopefully I got the queen, because giving them a frame of eggs isn't going to be so easy.
    Easy peizy if you have wax foundation, and if you don't stick a foundatless frame in a booming lang for a few days
    start with the cut strip method
    https://beesource.com/resources/eleme...t-cell-method/
    then build a eek/shim and put the bar up on spacers JLS style
    full detales herehttp://www.beeculture.com/net-gain-c...ilding-system/

    You could just pull out a comb form the warre and zip tie it in to an empty lang frame places in the center of the nest... or cut off the comb and wax the cut strip of eggs to the warre top bar
    plenty of options

    The Warre doesn't fit my OA vaporizer and I never did get an adapter built. (another of the compatibility problems)
    ODA would be a good solution.

  10. #29
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    Feb 2015
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    Salt Lake City, UT
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    Default Re: My new Warre and busy girls

    D'oh.

    MSL, GWW, thanks for posting.

    All I was thinking of in the excitement of the moment was how I was going to transfer a Langstroth frame of eggs if I didn't get the queen. I didn't even think of moving a warre frame to a Lang to get some eggs in it if I needed to.

    I've never tried OAD, I understand its pretty rough on the bees. Since I'm back in the Warre I may need to just make sure I build something so I can OAV it. My Warre bottom board is the traditional design, so I'm going to need a shim or something or just change to a different bottom board.
    Zone 5B

  11. #30
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    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: My new Warre and busy girls

    Jc
    Or maby you could just make a 2 inch shim to set on the warre and vape from the top?
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  12. #31
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    Sep 2016
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    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
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    Default Re: My new Warre and busy girls

    You warre has frames! so much easier then lol
    I've never tried OAD, I understand its pretty rough on the bees
    Marketing, there are places in the world were it is used 8x a year in commercial yards
    the much sited study a says in the abstract
    All three methods could give high varroa mortality, c. 93–95%, using 2.25 g OA per colony. However, sublimation was superior as it gave higher mortality at lower doses (.56 or 1.125 g per colony: trickling 20, 57% mortality; spraying 25, 86%; sublimation 81, 97%.). Sublimation using 2.25 g of OA also resulted in 3 and 12 times less worker bee mortality in the 10 days after application than either trickling or spraying, respectively
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...9.2015.1106777

    3x bee mortality sounds realty bad for OAD, but when your read the study past the abstract(witch many didn't) you see OAV killed 9 bees over 10 days and OAD killed 24 bees and the study says
    Across all doses, sublimation gave mortality rates of .8–1.8 bees per day, similar to the control. Trickling at all three doses and spraying at the two lowest doses also gave rates similar to the control
    now if you start running a course of treatments you might have issues, but as a treatment a few times a year OAD is no problem and is the more common treatment in other parts of the world
    but if OAV is your goto, for sure make a new bottom board

  13. #32

    Default Re: My new Warre and busy girls

    msl,
    what´s the white covering I see on your pict?
    Is it mold?

  14. #33

    Default Re: My new Warre and busy girls

    I ask, because Torben Schiffer of the Tautz Group University of Würzburg has shown us pictures of the intestines of the bees, if they have removed mold and have taken up the pathogens with their mouthparts, the intestines are changed (perhaps that is why Nosema occurs so often despite cleansing flights)
    The Tautz Group has also found that bees do not use condensation in the hive because it is demineralized. They always fly to the outside.

  15. #34
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    Sep 2016
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    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
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    Default Re: My new Warre and busy girls

    That's BS member JSL's aka Joe Latshaw pict taken from the linked article he wrote for BC, you are seeing the edge of a poly nuc were it wasn't painted.

  16. #35

    Default Re: My new Warre and busy girls

    mmh, looks like mold to me but if you say so.

  17. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Croatia
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    87

    Default Re: My new Warre and busy girls

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    as a treatment a few times a year OAD is no problem
    Winter bees should not be exposed to more than one or two OAD treatments. IMHO for intensive/extensive fall/winter treatment only OAV is good, but for summer treatment maybe OAD is better then OAV.

  18. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    Salt Lake City, UT
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    Default Re: My new Warre and busy girls

    Blow up the picture, you can see the little expanded polystyrene balls that polystyrene foam is made of.
    Zone 5B

  19. #38
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    Feb 2015
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    Salt Lake City, UT
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    Default Re: My new Warre and busy girls

    Thirteen day update on the swarm I put in the Warre.

    The girls got right to work. They've drawn out 3/4 of both the top and bottom box.

    My concerns about the queen were unfounded, there were four frames of brood in the top box. I didn't lift frames from the bottom box, just lifted it off the bottom board and peeked at the bottom side.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Zone 5B

  20. #39
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    Feb 2015
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    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: My new Warre and busy girls

    Jc......
    Did you ditch all the drawn comb that the origional hive built? Looking good.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  21. #40
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    Feb 2015
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    Salt Lake City, UT
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    Default Re: My new Warre and busy girls

    Yes, I had cut it out when the former colony collapsed. The former colony had two boxes of honey which I harvested, and the lower box had brood with a honey dome. I cut out the brood and harvested the honey dome.
    Zone 5B

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