Using old frames
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
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    Bruce Twp., Michigan, USA
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    137

    Default Using old frames

    I use plastic frames and was planning on powered washing some of the old ones with really dark wax from the brood chambers. But every now and then I hear people saying they are using 50 yr old frames. Is removing the frames with pretty dark wax and removing the comb necessary?
    Last edited by dputt88; 04-26-2017 at 09:41 AM.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Pendleton County, Kentucky, USA
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    108

    Default Re: Using old frames

    Why do you want to get rid of drawn comb? All brood comb turns dark. It's normal.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
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    Bruce Twp., Michigan, USA
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    Default Re: Using old frames

    I've heard people mention that when it starts getting close to black it's no good anymore. I've been beekeeping for 5 years so only now am I considering this.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Lisbon, Portugal
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    Default Re: Using old frames

    Old brood coomb are prone to have spores os nosema and AFB . Changing old coomb is a sanitary measure to reduce de prevalence of those spores.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
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    Bruce Twp., Michigan, USA
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    Default Re: Using old frames

    Is this still required if I have never had afb in my hives?

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Lisbon, Portugal
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    Default Re: Using old frames

    Itīs advisable.

    Even you donīt have clinic manifestations of disease, spores are usualy present in old coomb. Change three frames a year, so in three or four year all nest frames are changed.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    Red Bud, IL, USA
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    1,768

    Default Re: Using old frames

    Same general idea but wax can absorb and retain some of the "cides" (insecticides, herbicides, pesticides, etc) the bees encounter and bring back to the hive. I try to rotate out the older comb every 5 years or so to reduce any potential hazards/stress that might be generated by the retained chemicals.
    “The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place.” -George Bernard Shaw

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Litchfield, Ct, USA
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    200

    Default Re: Using old frames

    Are we talking about just frames or comb? I was under the impression that new comb is advisable every few years. I didn't think the frames had to be rotated out.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    Red Bud, IL, USA
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    Default Re: Using old frames

    Sorry, just rotating out the comb and reusing the frames. I'm foundationless so cutting the comb out for melting is a tad bit easier than scraping it off the foundation. There is a market for the melted comb too, but slightly different prices between the older wax (darker) and cappings.
    “The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place.” -George Bernard Shaw

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Kirksville, Missouri USA
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    1,747

    Default Re: Using old frames

    I would keep using them as long as they use them. I'd say 5 year old comb is just getting started. Use them if there's nothing wrong with it.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    KC, MO, USA
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    4,646

    Default Re: Using old frames

    The USDA recommend rotating your comb out every four year due to pesticide residue caused by the beekeeper.

    IMO If you don't treat with hard chemicals/pesticides there is no reason to rotate (oxalic acid does not build up in the comb, para moth does).

    Some say AFB is everywhere, I have yet to see a study showing this.

    But have read studies that show in area of high AFB or EFB hives may have the bacteria present and not show symptoms, in area where hives don't have AFB or EFB the bacteria was not found. South Africa went decades without any AFB, some comb products were imported then all of a sudden they have a epidemic on there hands.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Lisbon, Portugal
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    Default Re: Using old frames

    Yes , pesticides acumulate on wax but... I donīt know how wax is processed in US but , here, as far as I know, processing of wax may reduce the levels but it doesnīt eliminate them . In fact it seems that itīs impossible to eliminate them. In a study published I think two or three year ago by Pajuelo, A. in Spain, shows that foundation you buy, has already residues of pesticides.

    Some say AFB is everywhere, I have yet to see a study showing this
    . Try to see a study from about a year and a half by Russo, A. He and a graduation student searched for spores of AFB in coomb wax, foundation wax, honey and brood, here in Portugal.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Lisbon, Portugal
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    79

    Default Re: Using old frames

    Folbex VA, (bromopropylate), used in late 80 for varroa and before that to treat acarapis woody, was banned about 10 years ago ( or more... I canīt recall ) Residues are still found in german wax...

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    7,861

    Default Re: Using old frames

    I have dark comb that are more than 5 year old in my hives. The bees don't mind at all. I use them for
    pollen gathering to raise QCs on them. Other than the mites my bees are as strong as ever. To gradually expand the
    hives I have to put in new foundation frames. So dark comb is o.k. to use.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Lisbon, Portugal
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    Default Re: Using old frames

    The bees don't mind at all
    Ah! Yes , but your drones ? Donīt they complain ? Are you sure that your queens donīt complain ?

    Pesticides => wax => royal gelly => brood => bees / drones / queens.

    I understand you deer beekeepers fellows like confirmation so :

    Johnson RM, Pollock HS, Berenbaum MR. Synergistic interactios between in-hive miticides in Apis mellifera. J Econ Entomol. 2009 Apr;102(2):474-9.

    HaarmannT, Spivak M, Weaver D, Weaver B, Glenn T. Effects of fluvalinate and cumaphos on queen honey bees in two commercial queen rearing operations. J Econ Entomol. 2002 Feb;95(1):28-35.

    Dahlgren L, Johnson RM, Siegfried BD, Ellis MD. Comparative toxicity of acaricides to honey bee workers and queens. J Econ Entomol. 2012 Dec;105(6):1895-902.

    Hillier NK, Frost EH, Shutler D. Fate of dermal appliedmiticidesfluvalinate and amitraz within honey bee bodies. J Econ Entomol. 2013 Apr;106(2):558-65.

    Frost EH, Shutler D, Hillier NK. Effects of fluvalinate on honey bee learning, memory, responsiveness to sucrose, and survival. J Exp Biol. 2013 Aug 1;216(Pt 15):2931-8

    Shoukry RS, Khattaby AM, Al-Sheakh AA, Abo-Ghalia AH, Elbanna SM. Effect of some materials for controlling varroa mite on the honey bee drones. Egypt. J. Agric. Res. 2013. 91(3

    And are many more...

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Lisbon, Portugal
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    Default Re: Using old frames

    you deer beekeepers
    My sincere apologies . I am not a native english speaker. Iīm deeple sorry.

    Please read :

    you dear beekeepers.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts
    79

    Default Re: Using old frames

    you deer beekeepers
    My sincere apologies . I am not a native english speaker. Iīm deeple sorry.

    Please read :

    you dear beekeepers.

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    KC, MO, USA
    Posts
    4,646

    Default Re: Using old frames

    Quote Originally Posted by antonioh View Post
    Ah! Yes , but your drones ? Donīt they complain ? Are you sure that your queens donīt complain ?

    Pesticides => wax => royal gelly => brood => bees / drones / queens.

    I understand you deer beekeepers fellows like confirmation so :

    Johnson RM, Pollock HS, Berenbaum MR. Synergistic interactios between in-hive miticides in Apis mellifera. J Econ Entomol. 2009 Apr;102(2):474-9.

    HaarmannT, Spivak M, Weaver D, Weaver B, Glenn T. Effects of fluvalinate and cumaphos on queen honey bees in two commercial queen rearing operations. J Econ Entomol. 2002 Feb;95(1):28-35.

    Dahlgren L, Johnson RM, Siegfried BD, Ellis MD. Comparative toxicity of acaricides to honey bee workers and queens. J Econ Entomol. 2012 Dec;105(6):1895-902.

    Hillier NK, Frost EH, Shutler D. Fate of dermal appliedmiticidesfluvalinate and amitraz within honey bee bodies. J Econ Entomol. 2013 Apr;106(2):558-65.

    Frost EH, Shutler D, Hillier NK. Effects of fluvalinate on honey bee learning, memory, responsiveness to sucrose, and survival. J Exp Biol. 2013 Aug 1;216(Pt 15):2931-8

    Shoukry RS, Khattaby AM, Al-Sheakh AA, Abo-Ghalia AH, Elbanna SM. Effect of some materials for controlling varroa mite on the honey bee drones. Egypt. J. Agric. Res. 2013. 91(3

    And are many more...
    Good point.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Red Bud, IL, USA
    Posts
    1,768

    Default Re: Using old frames

    you deer beekeepers
    My sincere apologies . I am not a native english speaker. Iīm deeple sorry.

    Please read :

    you dear beekeepers.
    antonioh, you made me laugh with your apology. Many of us are native English speakers and terribple typers, I was raised in the Midwest US and my English teacher considered proper English and spelling a second language for me. Your deer point was well made, don't worry about the small spellings.
    “The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place.” -George Bernard Shaw

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