3 week old package no eggs or larvae.....
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    Fairview TX
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    Question 3 week old package no eggs or larvae.....

    I installed a new package 3 weeks ago that I have been feeding since the install. I continued seeing pollen & honey stores but no eggs, larvae or capped brood. Have not been able to locate queen so I purchased a new queen & she is still caged. Yesterday I found larvae after 3 1/2 weeks along with some capped brood. Should I discard the new queen that I purchased? Is there a possibility it is a laying worker? What should I look for to determine if it is a laying worker or my clandestine queen?

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    Marshall county, AL
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    3,404

    Default Re: 3 week old package no eggs or larvae.....

    Yes it's very possible that you have a LW hive. Look for multiple eggs per cell. Post some pictures of your capped brood.
    The more I learn about bees, the less I know.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Baden Wurtemburg Germany
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    560

    Default Re: 3 week old package no eggs or larvae.....

    Take a picture of the capped brood and publish it here, then we can tell you if you have laying workers.

    If you have more equipment you could make a nuc with one frame of bees and add the new queen. You would only do that if the other had a laying queen.
    Stephen 40+ hives. 6th year. Treat. Germany.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    10,840

    Default Re: 3 week old package no eggs or larvae.....

    As stephenbird noted above, caps on drone cells are distinctly different than those on worker cells. Post #5 in this thread has annotated photos that show the difference:
    https://www.beesource.com/forums/show...t-capped-honey

    And if a hive has a laying worker problem, it is not just one rogue worker doing that. In hive where laying workers are even noticeable, its likely there are quite a few laying workers.
    http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/layingworkers.html
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    Fairview TX
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    2

    Default Re: 3 week old package no eggs or larvae.....

    It appears that there IMG_2087.jpgis only one egg/ cell. They are standing straight up in the center so I think I may be alright. I also do have capped brood IMG_4406.jpg. Thanks for your advice!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    7,861

    Default Re: 3 week old package no eggs or larvae.....

    Put the queen on CL for sale. Go through your hive to find the queen if she is there then it is all good. Make sure you
    find her before offering the new queen for sale.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  8. #7
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    Mar 2015
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    Tallapoosa, Georgia, USA
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    616

    Default Re: 3 week old package no eggs or larvae.....

    That's what you are looking for. Nice worker brood from what I see capped. Did you get the new queen from the same source as the package? If not, I would look at using the new queen.
    Working to propagate my survivors and staying treatment free USDA Zone 7b

  9. #8
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Baden Wurtemburg Germany
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    560

    Default Re: 3 week old package no eggs or larvae.....

    No need to find the queen, she is there and laying. You can see single eggs standing straight up in the cells, which means she was there very recently.
    Now do some research on how to prove a hive is queenless and next time this happens you wont waist money on a queen you did not need.
    Stephen 40+ hives. 6th year. Treat. Germany.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
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    2,573

    Default Re: 3 week old package no eggs or larvae.....

    5feathers -

    Your problem is that all the worker bees are old and very soon there will not be enough bees to rear brood - the hive is doomed unless you combine bees and import capped brood immediately.

    To do a newspaper combine, the stronger colony stays in it's location, and goes on the bottom. Find the queen and put her and half her colony in a different hive. Tape a piece of newspaper (preferable the opinion page ) over the remaining queenless hive, and poke a few toothpick holes. Place the doomed colony over it and cover the bees for 3 to 5 days, giving themn time to eat through the paper and combine. The new queen is in that location, and will take over.

    The mother queen that was moved will lose all her foraging bees back to the original colony unless you move them several miles away, onto a nectar flow.

  11. #10
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: 3 week old package no eggs or larvae.....

    There are risks every time we do a combine especially when a strong queen from the strong hive just been removed. During the Spring time with the flow on they like to make QCs. My strong hive will start making them in day one when their queen got removed. Also there are many dead bees when they fight with the stronger hive taking over the weaker hive sometimes killing the queen that they don't like. The bees that are loyal to their queen are trying to protect her from the strong hive's bees. During this process one bee broke through the defense barrier and got hold of the queen's hind leg or wing. Locked in her mandible and would not let go. It is a life or death situation now. Seeing this her loyal bees try to come to the rescue. Now this is the time that the balling game begins. At a time when Spring queens are scarce, I would put the cap broods about to be emerged without the attaching bees from another hive into the weaker hive. Another way with a better chance of the queen's survival is to remove the strong hive and put them in another nearby location. Then put the weaker hive next (not directly on) to the removed hive's location to take up all the incoming foragers. Do this a few hours before the sunset. The weaker hive will be beefed up with stronger bees in no time. Within a few days the stronger hive will be issuing their own new foragers. Both sides win!
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  12. #11
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    Dec 2010
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    Default Re: 3 week old package no eggs or larvae.....

    Beepro is correct, depending on hive strength, relative hive strength, pheromone level of each queen, nectar and pollen flows, fiestiness of the colonies, etc.

    I have rarely seen problems such as he describes, though, except with AHB.

    We almost always recommend combining a weak colony with a strong one. Queenless bees (notable exception is AHB) tend to accept a laying queen.

    But I still would not add emerging brood to a small colony with older bees - you'll most likely lose the brood to chilling.

  13. #12
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    Jul 2014
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    Default Re: 3 week old package no eggs or larvae.....

    What did i miss. When did we go from, i thought i didnt have a queen and bought one, now i have 2 queens for this package, to doing newspaper combine?

    I must of missed where he split it, no?

    I'm still thinking he has a laying queen in a new package with newly drawing foundation, and a mated caged queen in there too. Am i wrong?

    If im not wrong, now you have to decide to split a small group and try to make 2 colonies, because you have 2 queens or just get rid of a queen.

    I would get with local club or facebook and see if you can give that queen away and if your queen fails, come back to that guy you gave queen to and see if you could get frame of brood from him, if you ever need it.

    My first package superceded and they ended up fine. Your package bees will be fine. You have good looking eggs and female capped brood. Get the mated queen thats caged up, out of there.
    www.facebook.com/hives2honey Oxalic Vaporizers, supplement and more!!!!!! Check me out.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    St. Michael, MN
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    690

    Default Re: 3 week old package no eggs or larvae.....

    Quote Originally Posted by rookie2531 View Post
    What did i miss. When did we go from, i thought i didnt have a queen and bought one, now i have 2 queens for this package, to doing newspaper combine?

    I must of missed where he split it, no?

    I'm still thinking he has a laying queen in a new package with newly drawing foundation, and a mated caged queen in there too. Am i wrong?

    If im not wrong, now you have to decide to split a small group and try to make 2 colonies, because you have 2 queens or just get rid of a queen.
    You didn't miss anything. Someone decided his hive is doomed because he has eggs and capped brood and then jumped to combining. ???

    I think you are correct. He has a laying queen in a new package, and is potentially a new beekeeper who hasn't mastered queen finding. No big deal. Everyone does it.

    I think he should either make a 2 frame nuc with the new queen, or trade her for a frame of brood to put in there and jump start the new colony.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    May 2019
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    Littleton, Colorado, USA
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    9

    Default Re: 3 week old package no eggs or larvae.....

    I'm a new to bee keeping. I picked up a package on may 4th 2019. My packaged queen didn't lay any eggs. At 3.5 weeks I requeened. Queen #2 laid only about 15 eggs. A week later late afternoon I found her dead outside the hive. I got another queen. She was released about 4th or 5th June 2019. She is laying eggs and lots of them. But now my girls are 6-7 weeks old. It's my understanding that the younger bees between 6-11 days old are the nurse bees that make the royal jelly to feed the nursery. Just a handful of brood. I have looked all over town to find someone to sell me a frame or 2 of mix brood to sustain my girls. Any idea's on what I can do to save my girls? Sure I can purchase a nuc for 200 bucks but then I would be putting them at risk as well.
    Last edited by TrooperGirl; 06-10-2019 at 06:12 PM. Reason: left out information

  16. #15
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    Apr 2017
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    Aylett, Virginia
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    3,733

    Default Re: 3 week old package no eggs or larvae.....

    TG, contract a local bee club and see what they can do for you. Expect to pay $35-40 for a frame of emerging brood. You might consider updating your profile to include your city and state. There may be a Beesource member near you but they would never know.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

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