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  1. #81
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    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    Eltalia
    I am having a great deal of difficulty in following your description of events/reactives.
    Likely just me.
    It is probly not you.

    So I offer basics, fully aware I may be "preaching to the converted".
    On some of the things you mention, I am not converted. I more look through the forum seeing things others have tried and liked that fit with what I want to accomplish and then I try it and see if it works.


    Any active queen is with the swarm.
    That swarm colony should be relocated at least a mile offsite, particularly where other managed colonies exist close to it's origin.
    Likewise moving a colony "10feet" is more likely to fail than be productive. Close it up at dusk and move it offsite also.
    There will be plenty of days remaining to sort a queenless colony, so for "do now" action eliminate the immediate risk of colony drift in all cases. Consequences of drift/confusion could include robbing and/or after swarms or even more full swarms.
    Most of this is over for this year but I did have my issues during all the things that happenned.

    I do understand the queen is with the swarm. I did have a swarm that I caught but also had three hives and so I thought I had it figured out which hive had swarmed. Then I did a teronov split on a differrent hive cause it had cups with larva and royal jelly in it and lost the queen some how and so now I know that I don't know for sure.


    Move bees a mile.

    As far as moving a more then ten feet. I reconize this may work best however on the splits that I did do that were not swarms I caught, I tried to split the bees by age and job so that drift was less of an issue and also on one used a double screen board cause drift of forager bees from the young bees on the top of the board would only help the lower hive at some point and so as long as the top part stayed "strong enough", The bottom would be even better and it could be accomplished in one yard.

    The one that I moved ten plus feet away and let the old bees fly back to the old location was something that member "lourie" said she really liked and I tried it and it is my favorite as those were my strongest comb building split from the hive I was already sure had swarmed. I really like that split and would sometime like to try it while having the old queen and before she had left.

    I did put two of the three swarms that issued from my hives only 10/20 feet away and drift could be an issue with one of them. They were both after swarms that came a day apart from each other and one of them is not now viable. I did however put a leaky feeder on that hive and also killed a bunch of bees when hiving it. It could be drift or the queen not making it back also but I think it is more likely the killing of all the bees maby getting the queen or mostly my leaky feeder running out the bottom board.

    I do have access to two hundred acres about 12 miles away that I could move splits and such to but figured that I would like to keep everything in my back yard for a while and try to learn with them first. I could move them for a couple of weeks but am foundationless and moved a swarm one time and collapsed all its comb and so for now I am practicing in my back yard, good or bad.

    I do think that when the swarming and splitting happenned might be why they worked as well as they have so far. I would hate to do what I did with those small swarms in a derth.

    I realize I do put a lot of "I" in my post and believe you are probly correct that I might have a small selfish (lazy) streak that could work against me working with the bees. I do look for post that help me midigate what I want to accomplish in a way that the bees may accept it though.

    I don't dissagree that I could work with the bees better. I also find that I can read and read and read but the doing is always differrent from the picture that that reading puts in you head.

    I am retired though and maby having a differrent goal in mind than handling bees to thier max. I don't relie on the income and don't know if I want to have another job but more want a cheep hoby that teaches me things. I may experment a bit and then come on here so smart people can tell me that the reason this didn't work is because it did not fit with what the bees want.

    Don't get me wrong, I want to know more of the right things which is why I put it out there. I want to eventually know what can and cannot be done and what works as well as what does not.

    I do say that so far, my very favorite split was just moving the whole hive 10 plus feet and letting the foragers fly back to the old spot and start building comb.

    As far as my stand out quality, every body keeps bees to get stuff for themselves. I do too. I do look for ways to make the bees want the things that I want. I get most of my ideals from people willing to comment and I thank you for yours and also any more that you have the patients and energy to give.
    Cheers
    gww

    Ps The hive I did the teronov split on and then put back on the hive was the hive that put out two after swarms and so I am not discounting that is could be from confussion of having all the splits so close. I did mess up on that split in two or three ways in my mind though that could have contributed. One, I did not shake all the bees off the frame and may have left too many young bees on bottom. Two, the wind blew the board over where the young bees were clustering putting them in the grass, Three, I did not bait the empty box with drawn comb or brood to intice the bees to use it and lastly, I did not cull the queen cells down to one or two in the lower split but left all of them.
    It was still fun for a first time and I will do better next time.
    Last edited by gww; 07-02-2017 at 07:17 PM.
    zone 5b

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  3. #82
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    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    @gww.
    Quite clearly your interaction with the forum frames much of your way forward, not a bad thing at all however it always holds true locale determines which works best for bees you manage. And so it is what some report may or may not apply to any situation you stumble across.
    I guess, in a nutshell, the solutions often given should be considered as options up against what you know locally.
    When something does not work, resist making the mistake of forcing the option to work - in thinking it is your work at fault(?word?).
    Observation is the key, often months over a single colony.
    Bees make the decisions, you observe... and learn, a never ending 'game'.

    The "one mile" 'rule'?
    An arbitary number which will guarantee the bees must reorientate totally.
    1/2 a mile might work as well as 100yards, in a particular circumstance.
    A single mile - or more - will definitely work, in any circumstance.
    Like yourself I am 'lucky' in that I can roam freely within a 25x80mile valley.

    What one wants?
    In what is now coming onto five decades of colony interaction I can quite definitely say I have yet to meet any enthusiast who is "in it" solely for the bees, regardless of their utterings. I have run across some who near on had me convinced, but time proved that as entomologists and/ or journeyman biologists the end game was peer recognition within their career path.
    So it is I adopt the attitude "everybody is guilty of "I want""... it is only a matter of what that "want" is.
    For mine my work in retirement is wholly philanthropic. Like yourself I have no need for income from it, nor am I (us) that keen on honey stores above what two ol'furtz can consume in any year - but - the rub-off is I and my partner get to be known (recognised) to be of value in an otherwise closed local community owning a poor attitude to the aged,
    So whilst we do not actively pursue that end it is nice to know it will happen. So in "sack-cloth and ashed" I am as guilty of "I want" as the next person.
    Yet having grown a genuine liking for bees (all) I can only wish they want me around :-)

    Cheers.

    Bill

  4. #83

    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    I do say that so far, my very favorite split was just moving the whole hive 10 plus feet and letting the foragers fly back to the old spot and start building comb.
    Thatīs really fantastic. Please go on updating, gww, and donīt belittle yourself.
    You give good reasoning and reflecting about what you do.
    I like to learn from your stories and I do!

    Learning by error and success is good learning because learning about your bees is a local thing.

    As to education...I rather have less and be practical. Must be a whole lot of academic people who are not able to build such a pavilion as you did.
    As much as I respect educated people learning by doing is the best education.

    Why should it be strange starting each sentence with "I do" ? Itīs your experience you tell about. Your thoughts given.
    Last edited by 1102009; 07-03-2017 at 01:01 AM.

  5. #84
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    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    eltalia
    I am first year and will be dead before I can say I have fifty years with the bees. I worked for someone else for 30 years and now can do some of the things that interest me. I have found that with an internet connection that it is not like the old days where you actually had to be innovating and smart to be able to do some things. I have you tube and forums and such that may not make me an expert but give some chance of making me have some minute success of surviving new things that I try. I agree that learning a skill of picking through which of those things a person may try and which is a waste of time is still a trick in its self. I have a limmited income and lots of time and decided to try bees cause it fit with my likeing to stay home but yet be a little busy and yet fit my income level.

    It has led me down some strange avenues. I am cheap and so I built everything with scrap left over from other jobs till I started having a hard time finding more. This led me to building a home made saw mill so I could get more wood. This led to me building some storage buildings and helping on my brothers club house and still get wood for bee hives.

    Now I doubt that I saved real money and buying things that are mass produced would probly be cheaper in real life. Doing it this way though only hits my finances at a rate that it is much less noticable and so therefor is something that I can keep doing forever. I do not do any of it good but more just good enough. It makes me closer to the old saying of "jack of all trades and master of none". It also gives the illusion of having accomplished useful stuff. Others can accomplish it better but I still feel a little good that I can accomplish any at all.

    SiW....
    I also learn from you. I am getting so forgetful as time goes by that keeping what I learn is not garrenteed. I know what I know now is very little and so I muddle through and try to know more and you and what you do helps. I also will sometimes defend things I think I know and am later proved wrong on because it is the defending that brings out other views that give me more veiws to assess. I figure to make some mistakes and then see if I am the definition of a fool who keeps repeating the same mistakes over and over or if I can actually learn. How a person learns is probly how he has learned to learn. I only know for myself one way to do it and maby actually end up knowing something. That is to jump in and try it and put it up for review from people that probly do know and then see what happens. I feel lost everytime I try new things and bees is no exception. Throw in that many seem to accomplish the same thing by taking many differrent routes, then chosing from all that is out there to use for yourself is a trick in its self.
    I just keep reading and depending on my energy at the time, trying some of it and then just leave it to faith that it will be what it will be.

    I enjoy our interaction.
    Thanks
    gww
    zone 5b

  6. #85

    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by gww View Post
    I figure to make some mistakes and then see if I am the definition of a fool who keeps repeating the same mistakes over and over or if I can actually learn.
    I enjoy our interaction.
    Thanks
    gww
    Well, I am more the fool than you perhaps, because sometimes I repeat my mistakes even knowing about them.

    If I could make people smile at my posts in a nice kind of way I would cover my keyboard with dirt, too. Keep on! Love your spelling.

  7. #86
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    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    SiW....
    Love your spelling.
    Now that is new, ha ha!
    Cheers
    gww

    Ps You don't need dirt on the key board, your last post made me smile.
    zone 5b

  8. #87
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    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    Just because it interrest me. This lizard on the bottom board next to the hive has been living in an empty hive on the left for a long time. Looks fat doesn't he.



    The fruits of my labor. They never seem to get as much honey on the side of the jar and the counter top on the you tube vidios I watch. Bottled 3 gal and one still in the bucket.



    Cheers
    gww
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  9. #88

    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    Very nice.
    The fingers show how sticky this job is, very elegant motion.

  10. #89
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    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    I found this interesting at about 5pm today.



    None of the others are doing this.


    From the side.


    How deep they are hanging.


    All the hives have slatted racks. This hive is really doing well. This is the flyback part of a hive that was started with a comb of capped honey, one frame of brood with a queen cell and empty foundationless frames and of course only foragers for bees.

    Out of all of them, it has built up fastest and probly had the most stores (almost a full medium) by the time the queen got mated. I just added (a week ago) the third medium and pulled either one or two brood frames up to bait the super/brood box.

    I thought that maby the boxes were just made a little better and did not have as much natural ventalation at the seams but it looks like it does not fit perfect. This hive is the most active at the entrance of the three hive on the stand and the only one that is close is the second from the end which was the other half of this split. Maby I have found the queen I need to propogate from though it did start the biggest in spring and was the only hive I have bought.

    There was some washboarding going on on the front of the hive.

    I don't know if I am going to crack the inner cover for ventalation or not. I do not have any entrances in my inner covers on any of the hives.

    It did rain two days ago and sprinkled this morning for about a half hour.

    I am getting into a few hives tommorrow so that I can add two supers to two hives one super each. I will also remove on another hive a shim that I put on to hold some comb I broke out while adding a super to it. It will be interesting to see if the bees messed me over and drew comb in the shim in a week and wether the little bit of brood that was in the comb hatched.

    I have seen bearding before but it does have me curious of why just this hive.

    Any ideals?
    Cheers
    gww

    Ps My pet lizard is still moving from hive to hive checking the entrances. Thought about taking another picture so you guys could see that he doesn't seem to be losing weight but figured I have run that into the ground already.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by gww; 07-07-2017 at 05:58 PM.
    zone 5b

  11. #90
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    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    gww, are you looking for an out yard for next year yet? The bearding could be one or more of several things. Some of mine beard more than others, but I don't get concerned. They surely have the temps taken care of inside just the way they are.

  12. #91
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    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    Danial
    I have an out yard but am too lazy to really want to use it. I was thinking I had lots of equiptment made ahead but started getting close to using it. I wasn't that worried cause the long hives don't have bees in them and I have two more of everything but wow, getting close. I may never put bees in the long hive because they have really turned into handy tables.

    I was thinking that I might be able to have up about 20 hives here at home. I may someday put some somewhere else if for no other reason but to see how the bees forage there compared to at home. Untill I become a lot more confident that I know what I am seeing easily and can only go in a few times a year, I will probly keep them at home for awhile.

    I am such a worthless hermit or lazy type that I can hardly make myself drive to the store 6 miles away or even go the mile to buy milk at our one gas station in my town. Putting bees twelve miles away seems hard though I did go to mom and dads and plane some more boards for hives the other day. So I am not so mentally ill that I don't do what I absolutly have to.

    I gave some advice using your name the other day to a guy who was checking on a virgin queen return.

    Danial, is your flow still going?

    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  13. #92
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    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    gww, the last week and a half has had a good flow surge after 3 inches of rain in a couple days. The white clover was still out, and is still finishing up, as well as 5 acres of blooming alfalfa a mile away that hasn't been cut yet. I am just suspecting that they are utilizing the alfalfa, and there was some very light honey coming on last weekend. I don't know for sure if it's still going good today.

    I had an issue with honey harvesting and top entrance hives. Seems once the main flow subsides, and it did for a while a couple weeks ago, the colony wants the brood at the entrance so they bore up through the beautiful full frames of honey above them to get there. I saw up to 1200 pounds on the hives before I discovered that. My one bottom entrance I have has given me 12 gallons so far, (beautiful 4 mediums stacked up and fully capped) and has another 4-6 gallons to take when it's capped. I am impressed. The others are top or combination entrances and they mostly had started their drive to the top by the time I was going for harvesting. It's a shame to discover the top entrance issue too late. One instance, my second best producer, had maybe 10 gallons, but I only was able to take maybe 3 1/2 or so. A good amount of the honey was consumed to make all the brood, but a frame that's half brood and half capped honey doesn't do to well for extracting. I got 35 gallons the first round, and there may be another 20 on. I cured the top entrance error on some and they are correcting themselves. I also pulled a bunch of queens for nucs and stopped the march upwards. I plan to split more as the cells are completed next week. Yes, I am reproducing that 200 lb honey maker hive.

    One product of the drive to the top entrance with brood is lots of bees. Most of the hives are boiling over with bees Like I haven't had before. I even lost a swarm out of the second biggest hive since I spent a couple weeks scrambling to snatch what honey I could, and extracting, as they all were marching upwards. I will be able to make some more strong splits this month with all the bees. I want to end up with some side by side double nucs to winter. I don't know for sure how many. I am at 28 colonies right now, but several need to make a mated queen yet. With the nucs I could see going to 40-50 colonies easy, but time is getting tougher to come by for them. I may see if late July nucs are a viable product to sell in a couple weeks. I can't help but laugh at the multiplying bees and the honey flowing in, even though they did consume or block a lot of it from me. I hope some of the queenless hives can pull in more as the brood nest empties of brood, for more honey crop. I would say the flow is going to grind to a halt very soon, unless there's a soybean field nearby that will produce nectar, or something I don't know about.

    I need an out yard too. Shouldn't be hard, but I haven't tried to find one.

  14. #93
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    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    Danial
    Even my one hive that did not swarm did not make the Mo average per hive honey crop. You are doing something right. I was told last year to take my honey off at the end of june or the bees would use it to make babies. I only have bottom entrances.

    I had some more honey in the hives but it wasn't capped and part of that is my fault for the way I supered them. I moved up some partialy capped supers and put empties under them. I am not to mad about it cause I did want them to build me some more comb and maby it didn't even really make a differrance on that but I did leave some uncapped stuff in the hive. I will get in a couple or tip a top and look down in a few tomorrow and maby know more.

    I had put my wet supers on and the bees at the entrance looked busy last week but when I looked it did not look like they were gaining much or making lots of comb. I do think a few were still drawing a little though. It has really looked busy since our last rains. I guess I will know more tomorrow.

    It is kind of funny, you know what to do but don't have the time and I don't know what to do and do have the time.

    I am not going to try and do any splits or try for increase. For right now I am satisfied by what the bees made me do. If they all live through winter I might even sell one or two in spring and then again maby not. In one way I think I am stupid not to split one just for the experiance but think I am just going to let it ride and see how I do over winter this year.

    You must have did very well in keeping your hives together to get those high numbers for honey for a couple of your hives. I have read your top entrance thread but can not comment cause I have nothing to add and so more just try and learn from reading. I am trying to pay attention though.

    Thanks for telling me about your flow. Mine are hitting my garden and I always think of that as the end but I do see bees on the clover that is in my yard. You mention out yards. When I look at the size of the heads on the yard clover and the amount compared to my area, it is unbelievable how lush it is at mom and dads house compared to mine. They have corn planted in the crop fields this year and so that is not a good thing.
    Thanks for the responce and good luck on your splits. I would be interested around the end of sept of how they worked for you.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  15. #94
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    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    gww, I probably should argue with you about me knowing what I am doing. I am learning every year though. FYI, I had 16 hives that were used for production, which means so far the average isn't too good. 3-4 of them haven't produced anything to take off, so those queens are out soon. It's a queen line that hasn't been very good. The biggest hive is a new swarm from last summer. I hived it and did nothing to it but add a box when needed, and it grew to survive winter to come into spring strong.

    I guess I don't know for sure about taking off honey at the end of June, since my bottom entrance didn't do that. It actually shrank the brood nest some as the flow subsided before the last rain which is good. I didn't see any intent to eat up the stores, and it was a big colony. I did pull the queen Monday to make cells for splits, and hoping to see the 3 mediums on it topped off.

    My biggest gain this year has been heavy wax plastic foundation from Acorn. It has made a big difference in the productivity of the colonies. They draw them out easily as they need them, even before they need them sometimes. I also was aggressive with swarm prevention and didn't have too many go to swarm before the flow.

    Again, I don't know if I really know what I am doing or it just happened. I just consider I have been blessed this year.

  16. #95
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    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    Danial
    I have been blessed also.

    New thoughts,
    I guess I need to decide to do something or not care and see what happens.

    I peeked in most of the hives, no real deep dives. I did not add supers cause I did not see what I thought I had seen last time I got in the hives.

    One hive I had not looked into last time but just guessed compared to what the others did and what it was the time before when I had looked at two side beside. This was my last swarm and very small. At this point in time it only has about 4 frames drawn out and does not look to be making wax. Its brood pattern is fair. I am trying to decide if I want to jump start it or just let it go and see what happens. It is hard to write down my ideals because if you involve other hives to fix one you have to think about the effect all around.

    My thought was to maby take a frame of capped brood and bees from my strongest hive and then put a fast feed gal or two of 2 to 1 sugar to water on it to jump start it into making comb. My issues with this ideal are several. One would be that of the two hives I harvested honey from, one is just going gang busters and has already filled the six or so wet combs that I put back on it and still has a few bees on a frame festooning to draw more comb. It has four mediums on it but the top two both have empty frame and so it really only comes to about a medium and 3 or four frames. I hate to steal from them and stop there progress. My other big hive that has about six wet combs on it is not doing as well but it has 5 mediums on it but has not filled the wet combs that I put back on it and also does not have the traffic at the entrance that the other big hive does. The top two mediums on this hive are about drawn out the same, Like really only a medium and a few frames. So this hive is not progressing and still building in the same fassion as my other big hive. I would feel more comfortable taking from this hive but the one thought in my head is that this is the hive that did not swarm and had no brood break and so I might be moving a bunch of mites if I move capped brood from it. The other big hive did have a brood break and I feel more comfortable about mites being less from its capped brood.

    I am also scared of the feeding part of the plan. I put a shim on the little swarm so I could throw a gallon on it in zip-loc baggies because I was tired of feeding a quart at a time with only two holes in the jar and my thinking is fast feeding will get them to draw comb. I also have a top feeder. I am a little worried bout starting a robbing frenzy and kinda wonder if just letting them do what they do might end up being better. It might be in my mind only, but it always seems like the bees from other hives are more interested in the top feeders then when I just use quart jars.

    The little warre that I killed all the bees in and counted as dead still has a small amount of bees in it. I have not cared enough to try and pull a frame and look for brood which would be doable but a little harder. I know this hive was robbed pretty good with the leaky feeder causing robbing. This hive perplexes me a little because it has very little increased its comb. It still has a small number of bees covering the comb and a few foraging from the entrance. The thing is that it always has little white peices of wax out in front of the hive at the entrance and on the ground. I took this to be from robbing but with the comb always being covered with a small amount of bees and a very small capped honey band on top of the comb (which is why I can not see brood) robbing doesn't seem to make sense. I wonder if the bees are in there but so few they can not reach critical mass. Just for grins, I have been thinking of shaking a frame of nurse bees in this hive also and adding so feed. I don't get the wax capping looking stuff at the entrance but still capped honey band on the comb. You would think it would be one or the other.

    I also had thought that the teronov split that I added a super a couple of weeks ago had it about drawn out when I peeked last time. When I looked this time it was less then fifty percent drawn out. Here my mind played a trick on me but needless to say I did not add more room. I am not too worried about the empty comb in almost all my hives cause I believe if we have a decent fall flow they will finish most of the hive bodys that are on them now. My mentor said that he has never had any luck with the bees drawing comb after july but last year mine came close and then I added three gal of food and it was ok. I don't want to add food every year but untill I get some comb, I do still have 200 lbs of sugar to play with.

    I guess I am going to think on this a little and do something tomorrow morning before it gets hot.

    I do think we are not quite in a derth due to a recent rain and so if any feeding does need done, the sooner the better. I base this on the big hive filling the 6 wet comb in about seven days and just the activity at the entrances.

    As a side note, the hive I put the picture of the bearding, it does not seem to be drawing comb in the added super but does seem to be hatching out the brood I pulled up and repacing it with honey. It is very active at the entrance and I don't know if what is going on inside the hive is a good sign or a bad one.

    I guess I will think on what to do tomorrow and if anyone comments before then, I will add that to my thinking and then I will do what I do.
    Thanks for reading
    gww
    PS I think most of the old timers did not like taking from the big hive to prop up the small hives . I think they liked to add the small stuff to the big stuff. I kinda like having the queens around though. I do wander if it might actually help a hive with a lot of bees if you removed some bees/brood from the hive when going into a derth. Any thoughts on this?
    Last edited by gww; 07-08-2017 at 12:55 PM. Reason: Changed the PS so it did not say backwards iof what I was trying to say
    zone 5b

  17. #96

    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    gww,
    if you put the feeder on top in the evening and fill with sugar syrup, there will be not much robbing. Just donīt do it in the morning and donīt make honey syrup on a weak hive.
    Sugar smells not much. You can but some menthol salve on the box to confuse the robbers.

    If you make thin syrup they will build, if you make thicker they store it. Look it up on MB page. To build comb density must be so put a comb in where bees emerge the next hours.
    It weakens the donator but take only one. Donīt use nurse bees, the donator needs them. The hatching bees will give the weak hive a push.

    A taranov split is not a natural swarm so donīt be surprised if the priority for the bees is different. A natural swarm thinks only of survivability and so starts the necessary activities. Propagated with feeding or some combs itīs strong in no time because it draws like crazy.

    I may never put bees in the long hive because they have really turned into handy tables.
    So you make me smile again

    Do all managements before winter bee breeding. Then comb must be available to fill with stores and bee density must be so they can nurse winter bees. This differs with climate.

  18. #97

    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    I would rob the hive with the beard, if possible.
    Those lazy ones should be able to draw one more frame and nurse it.

  19. #98
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
    Posts
    3,899

    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    SiW
    I could not decide what to do and so this morning, I didn't do anything. The hive that is bearding was my favorite split and it is the one hive that has a chance of getting three mediums drawn out with out feeding. It has two now but the third one is empty and it looks like they had not been drawing much in the last week. I do think it has enough food stores in it that the resources that it used to get the brood to hatching probly didn't set it back as much because it had lots of honey stored before its queen got mated and they needed to use them. It is one of my two most active hives at the entrance.

    I am in a quandry on the feeding. My mentor and a couple of thread on this site have said that if the bees go into the derth and decide to quit drawing comb, they will just store what you give them and then think they have a queen problim and superceed her because she is not laying enough.

    I never feed anything but sugar water with nothing added to try and keep down the intrest from other bees. Plus I got free sugar. I know you are not supposed to count your chickens before they hatch but I talked to the guy that gave me the sugar and he says he is going to bring me some more plus some other things. I gave him a quart of honey last night. He says he can give me a bunch of nirilite gloves cause they run over the boxes with fork trucks all the time and he can't sell them. I could get all kinds of flower cause the bags break. He is going to get me some buckets and lids that held fruit or icing and a bunch more sugar. He has a buisness that sells to bakeries.

    So, I have the stuff to feed with to make bees if I just knew how to make it work and had the energy to keep up with it. I will probly be topping off the hives late fall. I have read micheal bushes feeding page and I very seldom mix thin sugar water. Randy oliver did his study that seemed to suggest that it didn't make a differrance and it was the sugar content that the bees used and so it was easier labor wise to feed thick and michael palmer takes that position also. Michael bush also promotes making it as thick as he can (5 to 3). I am lazy and so I don't really measure when I make sugar water but more put sugar in a bucket and then bring the water out to the level the sugar was and then stir and this come to about 2 to 1. I am very lazy.

    As far as the teronov not being the same as a swarm. If I could have gotten the queen with the young bees instead of a queen cell, I think they would have made furthur progress. They really did pretty good compared to the swarms I caught as the amount of bees were no bigger then any of the swarms I caught and they actually drew out a bit more comb. I read something the other day that said the old bees draw faster then the young. I know it is not very much to go on and I also think that the bearding hive that was started with all old bees had lots more bees at the start but both had to draw everything and they old bees have about doubled what they drew compared to the young bees. Again though, they may have had double the bees to do the drawing. I will say that out of pure ease, just moveing the hive and starting a split with the bees that flew back to the old spot is the easiest thing I have did in bee keeping and worked the best.

    I am not sure that I have the talent to guage which caped brood is the oldest. I may just do as you say and give a frame of capped brood with no bees to the small swarm and put some feed on and keep my fingers crossed that they don't get robbed.

    I don't have any vicks or vapor rub and have been meaning to get some but I usually only come home with half the stuff I want to buy when I go to the store. It has been on my list and also mentioned to the wife but has not made it to my house yet. Maby next time I go to the store or if robbing does start it will become such a priority that I make a special trip. I really have been thinking about getting some for quite a while.

    I have also been thinking about the comb situation. I still have a small hope of getting a little more honey from my bees. I have some sugar. I was thinking that come about the middle of september, that I could look at what is in the hives and extract any comb that is capped on the hives that have more then 3 medium boxes and then take that comb and move it around to all the other hives and get them with as many boxes as I can that have the full ten frame and then feed them some sugar to fill the comb. I wintered two hives last year and one was only one medium and the second was only about 70% drawn and filled and the other was only a medium and another with only about 40% drawn comb. I put the 40% filled combs on the bottom of the brood nest and put sugar blocks on the top and did not look in the hives again from october till the first warm spell in feb. By then the bees had pretty much filled the boxes that were partially drawn and were just booming with bees. I am thinking that I am going to have enough comb this year to get all the hive that are not at least 3 mediums (the goal) to at least two mediums and do know it is possible for them to make it on two mediums for a brood nest. That is the over all goal anyway.

    So I guess the goal at this point is to take a capped brood frame (no bees) and put it in the small swarm and add the top feeder with about a gal of sugar water.

    I just wonder if I should shake some nurse bees in front of my dead warre hive? They could be queenless of laying worker or whatever but there are still bees in it and it does have some traffic at the entrance. It is probly a waste of nurse bees but I wonder if it is worth trying and if the nurse bees are cheap enough to lose? I do wonder what it does to a hive that is going into a derth if they lose some nurse bees. I have it in my mind that it might even help a hive if the lost some nurse bees right before a derth. Any thought on this?

    Thank you for your advice. I, like you in you thread will make my moves dependant on wether and if it seems too hot in the morning, I might wait for more perfect before I move. I do have a plan now though.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  20. #99
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
    Posts
    3,899

    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    SiW
    I switched gears again. I took the easyest thing to do and just did that. I put the two top hive feeders on the small swarm and the warre and put 3/4 to a gal on each hive. I did nothing else. Don't stop giving advice just because I don't always follow it. I still want the advice but sometime I get lazy and take the easy way out even if it doesn't work.

    It was really hot out but I went down to the hives to watch the entrances and think about what I was going to do. I would have swore I showed up durring a tiny oreintation flight from the warre hive though it could have been just a few foragers coming in for the night.

    I got to thinking of you mentioning feeding near dark was safest and so just did it.

    I act like that one forum members signature line on all his post indicates. The one that says, "Honey badger don't care".

    Anyway, that is what I have decided to do for now. I did put some masking tape around the seam of the warre hive top feeder cause the gap looked big enough for bees to get in. I will watch the entrances for awhile and then check on them again someday.
    Thanks for letting me use you for a sounding board and also for your advice.
    Cheers
    gww

    Ps the hive that bearded only did it one day. Back to normal today.
    Last edited by gww; 07-09-2017 at 09:18 PM.
    zone 5b

  21. #100

    Default Re: bone head split so far, somebody save the day.

    gww,
    I think you do just fine. Itīs your situation, totally different climate and so you must know best. Often, standing before a hive or opening it you decide otherwise.
    Thatīs cool.

    To read to much advise could make you doubt your own way, but, in the end, everybody has different conditions and needs to make his own mistakes to adapt.
    Just compare it with drinking beer, everybody likes to drink beer but not all like the same kind. But everybody thinks his sense of taste is the best. But you would try and then go your own way not using beer you donīt enjoy.

    It`s good you have Daniel to exchange experience with, since he is your zone.

    Ah, donīt put vick on a virgin hive, she will not find back, lead by the pheromone fannings. That to my advise

    Why not creating robber screens for all your hives? You have stuff to work with at your home , I bet. One problem less. They are easy to do. Install them in the evening.

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