Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive
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  1. #1
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    Nov 2015
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    Arp, Texas, USA
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    Default Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    Have nasty hive. Always was.

    Was building swarm cells so I did a 3 way split in hopes the daughters will be better while I wait for my nice hive to get big enough to raise some queens for those hives.

    Daughters should be laying by now. Understand their temperament is unknown at this time.

    Just took a chunk of old comb I had given them couple of weeks ago to pull the old honey and pollen from and clean it out so I can melt it - and I pulled the super that was surrounding the old comb chunk.

    Was not planning on opening them up - so I only had my jacket on and not full suit.

    They are in double deep now - but not doing anything with the upper deep just yet. (It did have honey and brood when I did the split)

    I lifted 2 frames (99% empty) to see if they were working the foundation.

    Suddenly I got the worst full scale attack that they have ever put on me.!!!

    As usual, they followed me some 400' out of the bee yard and I ended up with over a dozen stings.

    A lot of those workers must die.!!!

    Now, I understand I can move that hive over a foot and put an empty hive in its place and the workers will go back to it when returning from foraging.

    So

    Once I get them trapped in the new hive - what or how is the best way to dispatch them. ???

    Thanks

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
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    Massac County, Illinois
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    Default Re: Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    Killing off a colony is nonsense unless Africanized Bees are the problem. If you are unhappy with the bees temperament, find the queen, dispatch her and requeen with better genetics. All those testy bees will be dead in about a month with exception of the queen...Replace her and raise a new group of workers.

  4. #3
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    Penobscot County, ME, USA
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    Default Re: Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    Quote Originally Posted by Geno View Post
    Killing off a colony is nonsense unless Africanized Bees are the problem.
    Given that the OP is in Texas, it could very well be.
    If you want to be successful, study successful people and do what they do.
    Zone 4a/b

  5. #4
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    Jan 2003
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    Default Re: Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    soapy water kills bees very quickly.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    hinesville ga usa
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    Default Re: Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    If I understand you correctly you had a mean hive that produced queen cells and you split them three ways. By the time those queen cells were capped your old queen most likely had left in a swarm, then you are dealing with a queenless colony that was mean to start with, no wonder you want to kill them. You could kill them or close the box after dark and move them to a remote location if you can, and requeen them with some more gentle bees, move them back when they are more sociable.

  7. #6
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    Nov 2015
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    Arp, Texas, USA
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    Default Re: Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    Geno

    If you noticed, I am not trying to kill off the colony - but stalling for time while the only other hive I have gets large enough to raise 3 new queens to re-queen these 3 hives. My hope here is to make this split smaller and hopefully less aggressive. I am hoping the other 2 hives from this split will not be as aggressive. Obviously going from one aggressive hive to 3 aggressive hives was not my plan. That split was a stall technique also.

    BadBeeKeeper
    Thank you.
    While I think this queen was a granddaughter from 1 of the 2 hives I bought last spring, it is possible she got mated with some AFB in the neighborhood I'm guessing. I just know the 2 hives I bought were nice. (That hive absconded last fall and the hive failed to raise a new queen judging from what I had/found this spring). This hive has always been extremely aggressive and smoke just makes them worse.

    AstroBee
    Thank you.
    Am I safe in assuming that any hive boxes and frames that get sprayed with the soapy water are safe to re-use once I soak & rinse all the soapy water off ??

    By the way - I have a swarm that moved into my trap and it appears they were sprayed before they arrived at my place.
    The hive is still alive - just barely and the final outcome is unknown at this time.
    My Question is - would that trap and hive and frames be safe to re-use after getting "washed" with bleach water ??
    Thanks

    For my 2nd spring - I'm off to a rip roaring start. ha ha

  8. #7
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Lawrence, Michigan, USA
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    Default Re: Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    I had to dispatch two terrible hives a few years back. Nastiest hives EVER! I wasn't in a position for space or time to requeen and let it all come out happy in a month or so. They had to go. I used a block of dry ice and a contractor sized garbage bag. I worked the bag under the hive during the day while being attacked. That night I opened the top, dropped in the dry ice then pulled up the bag around the hive and tied it shut. The next morning the hive was done. None of the resources were contaminated and I could use them in splits of my nicer hives. My situation wasn't the same as yours, but I didn't want to ruin anything another hive could use. Dry ice worked for me.

  9. #8
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    Nov 2015
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    Default Re: Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    Stan.Vick
    Yes, mostly. The queen cells were capped Feb 23. So the hives should no longer be queenless at this time. I have seen pollen going into all 3 of those hives lately. Two of the hives (this is one of them) had queen cells. The one puzzling part is the other one of the 3 should not have had any eggs to be raised as emergency queens to begin with. However, when I went to check them I believe that was March 6 - there was 2 frames of capped brood and a normally opened queen cell. That could only mean that at that time the orig queen was still in that box with a lot of extra bees. If she has left since then I do not know. I am hoping to get into the 3 tomorrow to see what is going on if I can. I had not thought of moving them to a more remote location for now. 1 good hive, 3 bad ones - what a combination. Thanks

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    Christo

    Do you think the soapy water would contaminate frames and foundation and boxes so I should not use again ??

    Maybe I could use dry ice on the surplus workers - but where does one get dry ice anyway ??

    Thanks

  11. #10
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    Feb 2012
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    Default Re: Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    You can just give the equipment a real good rinse with the hose.
    Let dry and reuse.
    Zone 6b 1400'

  12. #11
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    Lawrence, Michigan, USA
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    Default Re: Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    One of the bigger grocery chains in our area sells dry ice. I think it was around $8 for each block. Guess it does make sense that you could rinse the soap off with water.

  13. #12
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    Tsawwassen, BC, Canada
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    Default Re: Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    Use the dry ice method. I've tried soapy water a few times and the kill was very slow, very long, took days. It was very unpleasant and I will not do it again.

    That said, if you have a nasty hive do not make daughter queens from it, particularly in your area where they could be Africanized. I take it the local protocol would be to requeen ASAP with a queen from known non-AFB lineage. As mentioned, you need to be patient and let the daughters of the old queen die off before assessing the new queen's daughters.

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    Quote Originally Posted by Natilie View Post
    Christo

    Maybe I could use dry ice on the surplus workers - but where does one get dry ice anyway ??

    Thanks
    Baskin Robins Ice cream shop, anyplace that ships beef or frozen foods (German butcher down the way). This is a really clever idea.
    “Why do we fall, sir? So that we might learn to pick ourselves up” Alfred Pennyworth Batman Begins (2005)

  15. #14
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    Default Re: Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    If indeed you live in the AHB country then no matter how many queens got mated locally there will always be
    the present of aggressive hives. Beekeeping being local will dictate how aggressive they are. One beekeeper is so
    dedicated to beekeeping that he moved away from the AHB area to keep non-aggressive bees. If they are the AHB then how
    many bees can you keep on killing?
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  16. #15
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    Default Re: Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    Once you catch the mean foragers . Dont worry about them. They will just set there wondering where every body went . Or use dish soap. The foamier the better. Yes you can wash it off later. I use some of my meaner hives for resources for my other hives. Good luck and always bee prepared for the worst and be relived when its not too bad.lol

  17. #16
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    Default Re: Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    You could move the hive, set a nuc box with a drawn frame at the old location to collect them. Duct tape it closed at dark, and put it in deep freezer for a day or so.

    I had a laying worker hive that dwindled. When I shook them there was fighting at the surrounding hives. I put the box back, collected them, stuck them in the freezer.
    Hindsight is 20/10, not 20/20...
    After the fact, I always know what didn't work.

  18. #17
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    Default Re: Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    Quote Originally Posted by WesternWilson View Post
    I've tried soapy water a few times and the kill was very slow, very long, took days.
    Something must have went very wrong with your application. Soapy water is very quick to kill. Use a 2-gallon pump sprayer with a good amount of soap, dawn soap works well. Coat the bees very heavily. Once they are hit with the mixture they can't fly, but continue to spray until all are very wet. Liquid should be running out the front entrance.

    Natilie,

    You said that you're killing only foragers by placing an empty box at the old location, if so, you don't need a whole box of frames, just a couple will do. Spray them at dusk when everyone is home. Rinse the equipment with plenty of fresh water. Oh yeah, move the boxes with brood more than a few feet away - more like 20 yards.

    I've never used dry ice, so I can't comment, but sure seems like it would work.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  19. #18
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    Nov 2015
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    Default Re: Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    Hoot Owl - Thanks - I just wasn't sure.

    Cristo - Thanks - I'll check with them and there is an ice company in town, maybe they carry it also.

    Western Wilson - Thank you - yes, the preferred way would be to re-queen the 3 hives. However, there are no new queens available until the end of April here. Yes, I want to build some nucs to raise a couple of daughters from the nice hive I have. When I can. Understood.

    Beepro - Yes, understand, thanks. Some bloodlines are less aggressive or defensive than others - hopefully I'll be able to come to a happy medium.

    Dan P - Thanks - Like a boy scout - be prepared. Prepare for the worst - hope for the best. I had thought of adding some of those frames to my nice hive, but was afraid they might turn it into an aggressive hive and not the other way around. Right now I only have 1 other hive, but like the idea.
    A week ago a swarm moved into my trap and have been rehived. Problem, they were sprayed before they got here. There has been a big die off that is slowing down so I am hoping they will survive. I thought about adding some capped brood from those hive to this one. BUT - my concern is that whatever they were sprayed with has rubbed off on the inside of the trap, hive and frames. Don't know if they will survive, or if I can re-use the woodenware. Those bees couldn't defend against a butterfly right now, not able to fly, get upside down and can't walk a straight line, some drag a back right leg. Adding a frame of capped brood and nurse bees might just be a bunch of bees that attack the injured bees. Like animals do in the natural world. Just keeping my fingers crossed on them - but still don't know about the woodenware.

    Bdfarmer555 - thank you - perhaps you could have done a newspaper combine with the drone bees and an different hive.

    AstroBee - Thank you. Actually I didn't have enough extra frames to put in the box so I put in 5 and some 3" foam to fill in the space and to keep the frames from falling off when I move the box. I was hoping that would work - thanks for letting me know it should. But, the brood box is only 2' from where it was as that is the only space available right now.

  20. #19
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    Default Re: Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    In this situation, I would swap the hive location of the dying hive with the mean hive. The foragers and the
    mean bees will rebuild the weak dying hive if everything goes well. If not then both will perished. Somehow have a
    feeling that they will not be stupid enough to kill off the queen too. If they made it through by then the new bees will
    be from the queen that survived. At this time there should be queen bees available for your mean hive to requeen.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  21. #20
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    Default Re: Best way to kill workers from Nasty hive

    If you split and let them other hives raise queens your still going to have mean bees because its her daughters and they will have the same genetics. You need to buy mated queens to solve your problem.

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