Sensationalizing the Breed - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Jan 2016
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    Keosauqua, IA, USA
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    237

    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed

    The AHB can be worked. (Not easily)
    The AHB does seem to produce a substantial amount of honey.
    The AHB does show resistance to the varroa mite. (So do my local survivors)
    All agree? Cool.

    It also is terrible to work.
    It has killed people.
    Multiple stings seems to be inevitable.

    Nonetheless, with the varroa resistance, temperament, production, and buildup of my local survivors it is completely out of the question for me to deal with the AHB. This goes for a lot of people here.

    So what exactly is it that you want?
    You want to come and say you'll propagate a successful, and gentle line of AHB?
    You want us to keep it for you?
    You want us to call it by its proper name?

    Well, maybe I should refer to my Italians as my Apis Mellifera Ligustica and my Carnis as my Apis Mellifera Carnica. Well that's ridiculous.

    Talk the talk walk the walk.
    "In all honesty, I don't think any of us know what were doing. Just what we've done."

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  3. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
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    2,661

    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed

    don't feed the troll
    --shinbone
    (1975-1980, and now since 2011; maintain about 10 hives; Zone 5b; 15" rain; 5500')

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Somerset, NJ
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    336

    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed

    Agreed, there's enough well fed trolls out there.

  5. #44
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    Apr 2016
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    Mogollon Rim, Arizona 85933
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    747

    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed

    McBlain again...

  6. #45
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    Dec 2015
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    Harrison Ar
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    284

    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed

    Quote Originally Posted by shinbone View Post
    don't feed the troll
    Sorry. I was bored and he was there. I couldn't help myself.

  7. #46
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, Az
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    154

    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed

    Quote Originally Posted by NaturesResonance View Post
    Stay on topic dlbrightjr. This topic isn't about me.
    It seems like this topic may be about you. I shared my story with you on the last page. You can read and experience stories and watch videos but you don't know worst case. It is important that you have no hives as of yet. It is important because you open a thread about sensationalizing hybrid bees with a degree of ignorance and when people tell you the danger is real you argue. It isn't about are ability to argue. Bees are not dogs, they are not bears, or cats and they kill more people each year than any animal in America.

    I'll give you a sensational story and pray that it never happens. You gain permission to place your hives in a forest but because of your teaching job you haven't been out to your hives in two weeks. You return to your somewhat feisty hive and discover there are now 12000 more bees. The temperament of these bees has now drastically changed. When you take a peak inside 500 bees instantly fly out to meet you and they aren't ramming you. They are searching for holes in your suit or a slit in the duck tape you have wrapped around your ankles. You, however, remain calm and close the hive and walk off. Although you are surprised by the defensiveness you decide to come back that night and take care of things. The bees are still on you in surprising numbers even a quarter mile from the hive but things will work out. Then you hear it. The sound of hikers going towards your hives. Sensational... yes... But just one little girl gets stung or one dog killed by your bees and your world will change.

    You seem like a reasonably intelligent man. You choice of topic and manner of debate seems smug enough to make you dangerous. Please buy a couple Italian hives find some land and have fun with bees. As a man that teaches myself I notice people tend to choose the career to help other people. I teach math in a high school and at a community college. It really isn't about the math. It's about people. I would like you to enjoy this hobbie. It is a hobbie I assume. You don't want to jump into even a single nasty hive without the joy of keeping your choice of non aggressive bee. Table this topic, get some real and fun experience and then form an opinion. Your first nasty hive may completely blow your mind. Or perhaps you will shock the world. I find that most people who tend hybrid bees don't create topics about their virtues and mistreatment by the press/general population.

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
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    47

    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed

    It's a subspecies of its own. It deserves a name of its own. Not a name that implies that it's a murderous insect.
    The name, "Killer bee" is just ridiculous. "Africanized" isn't really a name either but rather a description of its native origin. It's not like they call any subspecies "Italianized" because that's not a name, it's just a description.
    Kerr never named his crossbreed. I think he needs to come up with a proper name...

  9. #48
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    May 2013
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    Gilbert, Az
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    154

    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidZ View Post
    McBlain again...
    If it is he writes differently but you may be write as the former stopped posting just before this man started posting.

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    Tucson, Arizona
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    47

    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed

    Gruntworker,
    Thanks for the constructive criticism. Truthfully, I don't know exactly how I'll manage yet. I do know I want to remain open minded to all possibilities. I may seem to take it with a lackadaisical attitude but I know it's a big responsibility, as well. I appreciate the worst case scenario too. I play a similar game on the ambulance. I get my partners to play the "what if game" with me. Preparing for the unexpected disaster is something I put into practice. I've been scouting for apiary sites. I'm even considering the proximity to hiking trails as a factor.

  11. #50
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    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    7,861

    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed

    When you go out to find a bee yard make sure there are no Africanized honey bees nearby from the DCAs. Because you cannot
    change the local bee genetics anymore than nature can, you just have to live with these aggressive bees. Ever since I got my
    2-ply ventilated kangaroo brand bee suit I have never been stung. Maybe it is time that you invest in one to protect yourself and
    others nearby. The last time I check there are still aggressive feral bees in AZ and that will not likely to change for another 100 years or so.
    Good luck on your bee adventure this season!
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  12. #51
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    10,038

    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed

    Quote Originally Posted by NaturesResonance View Post
    Statistically, pitbulls bite less frequently than Dachshund's. https://petolog.com/articles/most-aggressive-dogs.html
    In your opening post you say dog aggression is not so much about genetics, more about "response to stimuli".

    But in your post quoted here, you say that statistically some breeds do in fact bite more than others.

    Which means of course, it's genetic.

    In addition the article you have linked states "Any dog can bite. But some dogs do it much more frequently than other breeds".

    It would appear you have disproved yourself.


    I'll give you another way to figure this out. Get a hive of nice gentle italians put down one end of your yard. Get a hive of africans and put down the other end. See which one responds most to the "stimuli" of you opening them in shorts and tee shirt.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  13. #52
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    Apr 2016
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    Mogollon Rim, Arizona 85933
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    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed

    Quote Originally Posted by gruntworker View Post
    . You gain permission to place your hives in a forest but because of your teaching job you haven't been out to your hives in two weeks.
    I can say this he lies about putting bee in the Natl Forest in AZ, The USFS won't allow Apiaries on the land except for the 17 already taken apiary sites. To apply a new one it costs over $1000 to get the permitting started and then they won't even say if you can use the land. or even guarantee you that they will ok your use of any spots in the AZ USFS, and then once the process starts it takes 5yrs to get ok'd. I went through the whole process with the USFS last summer and laughed when I hit the $5000.00 cash wall
    If he has his bees in the forest then it's on private land.

  14. #53
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    Jul 2014
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    Texarkana, TX
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    163

    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed

    NaturesResonanse...still waiting to hear how many colonies you manage and how long you have been keeping bees?

    On another note...it sounds like my colonies are guilty of benefitting from European Honey Bee Privilege.
    Last edited by devil dog; 03-17-2017 at 01:13 PM.

  15. #54
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    Jan 2003
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    Suffolk, VA
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    4,211

    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed

    I'm sure some recall NR's previous thread where he/she kicked off half-baked philosophical statements regarding AHB. In that thread, it quickly became obvious that there was zero beekeeping experience, let alone AHB experience. It continues here, but now with a new twist, painting the behavior of insects and mammals with the same brush. I walk away from this thread with the feeling that in addition to no beekeeping experience, he probably doesn't even own a dog... NR, if you can't/won't post images of you working your AHB hives, then PLEASE at least post a picture of you with your pitbull.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  16. #55
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    Jun 2012
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    Suffolk Co, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed

    This thread is very reminiscent of another not long ago : Africanized bees are fake.

  17. #56
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    May 2014
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    Castle Rock, Colorado, USA
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    1,699

    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed

    It barely merits the time wasted to concur that it is a waste of time.

    "I've read that AHB are.. blah, blah, blah..."

    "Having not kept them... let me propose some (totally inexperienced) nonsense regarding how to keep them"
    After 40 years of beekeeping, I've come to realize that the bees can fix most of my mistakes.

  18. #57
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    10,038

    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed

    Of the thousands of people who post on Beesource, the occasional one pops up who is a "one issue" person. A few years ago there was one who only talked neonicitinoids, and was all over the site with it. Till he kind of was shown the door.

    Some of the most extreme views also come from folks who haven't got started yet, or they have got started but not long enough to have opened their hive more than a few times or learned anything real.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  19. #58
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    Feb 2013
    Location
    Milw, WI
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    276

    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed

    Quote Originally Posted by NaturesResonance View Post
    The post isn't about me keeping highly defensive bees. The post about dispelling the propaganda that has been a defamation of character. I've heard everything from, "they don't or can't pollinate-to they can't produce as much honey" An "africanized" bee is just another way of saying, mutt. Do people call a pug with a little pitbull in their genetics, "pitbullized"? No! That's just sensationalism at work. It's a bunch of propaganda against a breed. It's prejudice, and ignorance at it's best.
    What he is saying is that he has ZERO experience but would like you to take him seriously. Ignorance is on full display here....but its the OP that has teh best work.
    Technology is great.....when it works.

  20. #59
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    Jan 2005
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    Hamilton, Alabama
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    2,998

    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed

    30+ years ago there was an effort to select mild tempered Scutellata in Africa. I've seen evidence that Africanized bees respond to selection. With time, all bees in the U.S. will exhibit some level of Africanization. Put these disparate thoughts together and the conclusion is that we will have to breed from Africanized lines and develop mild tempered bees. It will be a long term effort. I don't think NR has the know how or the gumption to do the selection and breeding work required.

    As a reminder, Steve Taber had pure Scutellata in Louisiana in the 1940's. They were not well enough adapted to handle the climate and eventually the queens were gotten rid of. Africanized bees are genetically far different from pure Scutellata in that they appear to be able to survive and thrive in more diverse climates.
    NW Alabama, 50 years, 20 colonies and growing, sideliner, treatment free since 2005, 14 frame square Dadant broodnest

  21. #60
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    Sep 2016
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    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
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    Default Re: Sensationalizing the Breed


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