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ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

127K views 213 replies 97 participants last post by  Gray Goose 
#1 ·
Every year, EVERY year, every YEAR, there are multiple posts on beesource saying to the effect, "I installed my package of bees and they absconded."

If you feel like you must use a screened bottom board, KEEP IT CLOSED UP AT LEAST UNTIL THE HIVE IS RAISING BROOD.

I'm not going to try and pursuade you from using screened bottom boards, I'll just say I don't see a need for them. Use what you want, but keep them closed up.

If the mods do not care, I'll bump this post up every week or so in hopes of saving someone a package or two of bees.
 
#124 ·
Brad
For 10 years I have used slatted racks in conjunction with screened bottoms and screened inner covers. No problems other than mites.I do leave the covers over the screened bottoms until hot weather. This year I forgot to place the covers on the SBB when I installed several NUCS. They are doing just as well as the other hives with covers. In fact they are some of my strongest, but I attribute that to the queens. I do pay a great deal of attention to new hives after installation , but once they get going I stay out of their way and let them do their thing. I simply can not inspect the inner working son each hive, but I do observe on a daily basis the external flow of bees, orientation flights and observe the comparison of activity between one hive and another. I don't see any problems with slatted rack or combing them with SBB or IPM.
 
#125 ·
I thought I would post the results that a friend of mine had installing package bees this spring. He installed 26 packages, all were in ten frame boxes, and all were on open mesh bottom boards. They were set out in pairs, with about 8 to 10 feet between pairs, in a line around his property.

Two to the packages absconded, one completely left the hive for parts unknown. In the other package only the queen and a handful of workers remained. The workers from this hive left their queen and was seen moving into a package four pairs away. Both of the absconding packages were sitting side by side in their pair which was about in the center of the line of packages.

If open mesh bottom boards caused these 2 packages to abscond, why didn't the other 24 act the same way?

We know that bees have always had colonies to abscond, and the more Africanized genes we get in the gene pool, the more we will see it occur. In the old literature absconding was usually blamed on overheating or starvation, but that was not always the case. The truth is that we don't yet know what motivates bees to do the things they do.
 
#126 ·
If open mesh bottom boards caused these 2 packages to abscond, why didn't the other 24 act the same way?
I don't see anywhere in this thread that says ALL packages installed over open mesh bottom boards would abscond.

But your friend sustained an approximate 8% abscond rate. Who thinks that is a good thing?:s Would it have made more sense to at least temporarily close those open mesh bottoms in hope of a lower abscond rate?
 
#127 ·
I have no problem with closing the bottom temporarily, I have said before that small colonies need to be cared for in relation to their size.

I also have no problem with the bottom being left open, because I don't believe that in our conditions in May an open bottom creates a problem. If the packages were being installed the last of March or early April, then I believe the packages would have benefited from a closed bottom.

And about that 8% abscond rate, what about all the years of installing packages or swarms with no absconds? Is this a case of one Aw S... wiping out 10 Attaboys?
 
#131 ·
When we speak about cooling the brood nest we should remember how beekeepers once thought about heating the hive in winter. They heat the cluster and not the air surrounding the cluster. Any air is heated only because the heat warms the air when it escapes the cluster.

Bees don't intend to cool the air, they are trying to cool the comb, so the process is more like human perspiration than it is like the comparison to a swamp cooler. Air is moving in and out of the hive at the rate of about 230 to 250 feet per minute so any air cooled is not in the hive long enough to be of much benefit. The benefit comes from the evaporation of water cooling the surface of the comb and reducing the temperature in the cells, protecting the larvae from overheating. Any cooling of the air is the same as warming the air in winter, it was not the bee's intention.
 
#135 ·
Hi brad, im a newbee here. Ive read all this thats posted. Allot of mixed emotions about this screened, or solid board. Seems like both have merits. I personally think I'll go with solid boards in my hives going in spring. Seems more natural in my view. In a wild hive, I don't see but one entrance, and in a hollow tree, there is usually a vent in the top of the hole/cavity in the hive/tree. I may be wrong, but just as I've observed. But I'm New. Also, aren't the interior of hives dark, and very hidden from the inside looking out? The bees view, I guess you'd say.. I'll go with solid board, after hearing all pros and cons here. Interesting topic, id also think that the bees nature of hive / colony is seclusion, so dark seems natural for this. As well as some form of natural protection from predators. ? Id like to see if my observations, opinons are stacking up, or am i missing anything important. ? Thanks, richard
 
#136 ·
Hi mike, i really like your bush farms page 😁 !!! Lots of valuabe info there. Im newbee, but i sat down and got a gameplan down tonight. At least a start. I like the idea of working out of all med. Supers. Standardizing makes tons of sense. Also, seems to me, to fill the boxes with brood would move faster going from bottom to top faster, and rotating the bottom brood box up after the brood hatches. ? Does this sound like your plan, a rotation of sorts? 3 boxes like this would have a pretty high pop, and the honey production would be very nice also. Does this seem like your idea,? as I perceived it.... also, with3 boxes of bees, swarm lreventiin would be something to watch, I'd suppose?? I got allot more reading to do on your site, but very interested in your methods so far, and wanting to learn more. Thanks a million, Richard Thomas
 
#137 ·
Isn't a hive sorta mimicking a natural hive? I mean, isn't that what a langstroth supposed to attempt to do? I'm New, and just asking... Thanks for your input, I got lots to learn, so I'll beat ya with questions, and my observations.... which may not be correct.. Thanks, Richard
 
#139 ·
Why is it a problem?
Welcome to Beesource, Sharon!


Assuming you mean "why" do bees sometimes abscond from open screened bottom hives, most likely its a combination of factors.:)

First, lets note that there are some partisans that argue that open screened bottoms are not the problem, its just a coincidence. :p

In my opinion, new packages are less of a cohesive unit than an established hive. Package worker bees are not necessarily from the same original colony (before they were put in the package). They certainly don't 'know' their queen, except for the time in the package.

And, as noted by some posters earlier in this thread, the open bottom allows more light and airflow in the hive than in hives with a solid bottom (or a box with the screen closed off). Bees heavily rely on pheromones for communication, and excessive airflow may disrupt/impede such communication. Open screen bottoms impede the bees ability to thermo-regulate their brood nest.

So, in my opinion, its a number of individually (possibly small) factors, but when added together some new packages just decide that the conditions are not right, and decide to 'seek their fortune' elsewhere. :eek:
 
#140 ·
Package bees absconding was a problem from the very beginning of bees through the mail. The Root company that pioneered package bees recommended that when hiving the package putting an excluder on the bottom board under the first hive body to keep the queen from leaving before starting to lay. This was before the use of screened bottom boards, so the problem is an old one.
 
#143 ·
That was the recommended solution to the absconding of packages given by the Root Company when package bees first began. It works most of the time, as do most beekeeping manipulations. After the queen has laid in constructed comb, and the eggs have hatched, the excluder can be removed. Most of the time open larvae will prevent bees from leaving a hive.
 
#147 ·
Hey guys I'm a new beginner and have two hives and waiting on my packages to arrive first of April. One hive has screened bottom board and the other is solid. The screened one has a slot to install a cover of some sort. Can I cut a piece of plywood to put in it to close it up?
Thanks for any input. Also what kind of feeder do you recommend? So many choices!!!
 
#151 ·
Rereading some of this thread...no one has mentioned one important fact regarding fanning; the bees bring in water for the inside of the hive so fanning this water will cool the hive somewhat due to evaporation, like our bodies sweat when hot and the sweat evaporates off our bodies and cools us. Deb
 
#152 ·
I’m a 2nd year novice and I’m in daytona beach. I had 2 hives die last year because of hive Beatles. I have used small beetle traps with some success. I still have the beetles though. I built a screen bottom board with the tray under neath where I’ve put vegetable oil. In 1 week I’ve killed about 20 beetles. So I moved the screen board trap to another hive and hopefully will get all those beetles also. My point is with screen bottom board screen is not the problem.
IMHO and I’m still learning
 
#154 ·
It is clear that someone does not understand the concept of wet bulb temperature. That is the temperature that can be obtained through evaporative cooling. It is considerably lower than " ambient", depending on the relative humidity. The bees do understand this and use it to their advantage.
 
#155 ·
>Hi mike, i really like your bush farms page �� !!! Lots of valuabe info there.

Thanks.

>...seems to me, to fill the boxes with brood would move faster going from bottom to top faster, and rotating the bottom brood box up after the brood hatches. ?

Maybe.

> Does this sound like your plan, a rotation of sorts?

Not generally my plan. But if you have the time to spend (it's quite time consuming) you could age grade the hive and rotate the boxes. This plan has been put forth by Marla Spivak (she didn't claim to have invented it, but was proposing it) for queen rearing. The concept is to keep empty comb in front of the queen. So if you somewhat age grade a hive frame by frame and sort it into "stores", "open brood", "capped brood" and "empty comb". Then you can put the stores wherever you like (I like the bottom so I don't have to lift them as much) then an excluder on each side of the queen box and empty comb (with some kind of hole for the drones to escape). Then the open brood. Then the capped brood. Once a week you rotate the boxes so you put the top box (which was capped brood) with the queen above an excluder over the stores again. Then the box the queen was in which is now open brood next. Then the box that was open brood on top as capped brood. Then, in a flow, add supers above that. As they fill you can either harvest or move them to the bottom. If you do this every week the queen always has somewhere to lay and the brood is very age graded. This maximized the area the queen has to lay and once the process is underway you can mostly just juggle boxes.
 
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