ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards - Page 4
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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
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    Timonium, Maryland
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    382

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Lauri,
    What size screen are you using for your boards and where do you buy them from?

    Thanks,

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  3. #62
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    2,943

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Quote Originally Posted by Artur_M View Post
    Lauri,
    What size screen are you using for your boards and where do you buy them from?

    Thanks,
    #8 screen from Amazon. They were cheaper than my local hardware store. I paid $133.19 for it a week ago. Amazon fluctuates their prices for some reason. It's $10. more now. Wait a week, it may change.
    They also have smaller rolls if you don't need that much.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Lauri Miller.
    Carniolan Hybrids. Glenn, Latshaw & Wild lines.

  4. #63
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,640

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Quote Originally Posted by Artur_M View Post
    I would like to hear some of the reasons.

    Here are the reasons you SHOULD use screened bottom board:
    1. You'll see what's going on in your hive without opening it and disturbing your bees.
    2. Extra vent during summer time - makes sense to me.
    3. Mite dropping through
    4. .....
    5. Can see if there is a wax moth and it's approximate location.
    6. Dead SHB drops through
    ....
    I agree with above. My SBB is sandwiched with solid board with the gap approx 3/4in between. When necessary, this gap can be closed. Sticky board (political posters) can be slide in to count mites etc. In general, I like SBB because I can see the beginninmg of the potential problem(s) on the sticky board. It gave me the estimate of mites count etc. Since the top of the hive is sealed with propolis, there is no ventilation issues and my bees know the way home - they never gather under SBB. I just happen to have one beehive with solid bottom. In general, I do not see much difference, but solid bottom hive were flooded during our unusual heavy rain. Of coarse I need to tilt beehive to prevent flooding, but I do not need to do so for SBB hives. All my beehives are TF and foundationless. It seems to me that they equlibrated with mites and I neglected mites counting for the past few years. Since, I am a hobbyist, my ways are different.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  5. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Posts
    1,092

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Quote Originally Posted by Artur_M View Post
    Lauri,
    What size screen are you using for your boards and where do you buy them from?

    Thanks,

    You can also buy #8 hardware cloth from McMaster-Carr by the foot. Its a little more expensive that way but you won't have to buy a large roll.

    https://www.mcmaster.com/#9220T48
    Zone 5B

  6. #65
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Linden, Florida
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Ok so now I am paranoid about having a screened bottom board...just installed the nuc on Saturday and so far they seem to be doing well. It was recommended to me to use a screened board for the FL heat (already in the mid 80's here) Now I wish I had found this thread a week ago.

    Today is the day we do our first hive inspection so maybe I will go ahead and put the solid board back in. (I'm going to be a worried mess til we get out there today and make sure it's all good).
    Zone 9a Gardener
    Daughter of a Ghost Town

  7. #66
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    81

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Quote Originally Posted by Saunya View Post
    Ok so now I am paranoid about having a screened bottom board...just installed the nuc on Saturday and so far they seem to be doing well. It was recommended to me to use a screened board for the FL heat (already in the mid 80's here) Now I wish I had found this thread a week ago.

    Today is the day we do our first hive inspection so maybe I will go ahead and put the solid board back in. (I'm going to be a worried mess til we get out there today and make sure it's all good).
    In Florida you might want to keep the SBB just open it during the hot months... both have plusses.

  8. #67
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Shawnee, OK
    Posts
    96

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    While I agree with the original post--that during brood-rearing wooden bottoms are better to maintain the ambient temp--I would not throw away the SBB's yet. If your SBB's are fashioned in such a way that you cannot close/block it, as most of my home-made ones are (to recycle the old wooden bottom boards), use a cardboard and place it under the SBB's to block the draft. When the temperature gets hot, usually sooner than you think, just remove the cardboard for better ventilation.

    Earthboy

    https://www.facebook.com/YSKHoney/

  9. #68
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Linden, Florida
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom1617 View Post
    In Florida you might want to keep the SBB just open it during the hot months... both have plusses.
    Thanks for the comment! We did our first inspection this morning and everything is fabulous in there so I think we will leave the screen. It is supposed to be 88 here tomorrow.
    Zone 9a Gardener
    Daughter of a Ghost Town

  10. #69
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    10,840

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    It doesn't matter how much "ventilation" you provide in hot weather - ventilation can NEVER reduce the hive temperature below the ambient air temperature. Since bees want their brood area temperature at 93-94 degrees F 24/7, and if its 99 F, outside, "ventilation" means that there will be a lot of 99 degree air flowing through the hive.

    If instead, you allowed the bees to manage the ventilation, they would move adequate outside air through the hive to match/utilize the water droplets they were bringing into the hive to create evaporative cooling. Properly managed, evaporative cooling can reduce the air temperature inside a hive BELOW the ambient air temperature outside. Ventilation can never achieve that.

    The links below are not perfect references, but a place to start for more info on evaporative cooling:
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/4601407...n_tab_contents
    https://books.google.com/books?id=3G...20hive&f=false
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  11. #70
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Woodbridge, VA (But planning to move to NW Louisiana soon)
    Posts
    279

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Yikes! Thanks for the thread bump. Just installed two packages yesterday and did not close off the SBB's. I'll do that this evening.

  12. #71
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Marshall county, AL
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    3,404

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    It doesn't matter how much "ventilation" you provide in hot weather - ventilation can NEVER reduce the hive temperature below the ambient air temperature. Since bees want their brood area temperature at 93-94 degrees F 24/7, and if its 99 F, outside, "ventilation" means that there will be a lot of 99 degree air flowing through the hive.

    If instead, you allowed the bees to manage the ventilation, they would move adequate outside air through the hive to match/utilize the water droplets they were bringing into the hive to create evaporative cooling. Properly managed, evaporative cooling can reduce the air temperature inside a hive BELOW the ambient air temperature outside. Ventilation can never achieve that.
    Graham, there you go using that logic crap again. Being able to say it works better because "I" said so sounds so much better in most peoples minds and their arguments.
    The more I learn about bees, the less I know.

  13. #72
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    10,840

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    For those that would like to see more science, here is another reference on hive evaporative cooling:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=0y...ooling&f=false

    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  14. #73
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Shawnee, OK
    Posts
    96

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    "It doesn't matter how much "ventilation" you provide in hot weather - ventilation can NEVER reduce the hive temperature below the ambient air temperature. Since bees want their brood area temperature at 93-94 degrees F 24/7, and if its 99 F, outside, "ventilation" means that there will be a lot of 99 degree air flowing through the hive."

    On a hot day when the bees on the wooden bottom are busy fanning, counter the number of them at the entrance, and then replace the wooden bottom with a screened one. Then counter the number of the fanning bees. Until you do this "scientific experiment," please spare me your "science."

    Dr. Kim

  15. #74
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Suffolk Co, NY, USA
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    3,626

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Quote Originally Posted by Earthboy View Post
    On a hot day when the bees on the wooden bottom are busy fanning, counter the number of them at the entrance, and then replace the wooden bottom with a screened one. Then counter the number of the fanning bees. Until you do this "scientific experiment," please spare me your "science."

    Dr. Kim
    Professor, please explain what your "scientific experiment" proves?

  16. #75
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Quote Originally Posted by Earthboy View Post
    On a hot day when the bees on the wooden bottom are busy fanning, counter the number of them at the entrance, and then replace the wooden bottom with a screened one. Then counter the number of the fanning bees.
    If you were to do that, and IF there are less bees at the entrance after you open the screened bottom, all that shows is that there are less bees at the entrance fanning. It doesn't tell you what those previous 'fanners' are now doing.

    They could very well be off hauling more water in. They could now be inside the hive, trying to block off/slow down the blast of hot air that has been created by the beekeeper opening the screen. But at this point there isn't enough information available to determine exactly what they are doing.

    Once again, it is not possible to reduce the temperature of the hive below ambient [outside] air temperature by having more "ventilation". That is not a beekeeping issue - it apples to non-beekeeping scenarios as well. Basic science.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  17. #76
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Scott county, Arkansas, Usa
    Posts
    1,446

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Quote Originally Posted by Earthboy View Post















    On a hot day when the bees on the wooden bottom are busy fanning, counter the number of them at the entrance, and then replace the wooden bottom with a screened one. Then counter the number of the fanning bees. Until you do this "scientific experiment," please spare me your "science."

    Dr. Kim
    Please define hot and throw in a humidity percentage if you could, so I could do some sciency stuff.

    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  18. #77
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Timonium, Maryland
    Posts
    382

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post

    Once again, it is not possible to reduce the temperature of the hive below ambient [outside] air temperature by having more "ventilation". That is not a beekeeping issue - it apples to non-beekeeping scenarios as well. Basic science.
    I agree with this much only.

    Rader, what is cooler? car with open windows or closed windows under the sun?
    Why the house roofs/attics have vents and in some cases vent-fans ??

    I'll let the mode-Rader to come-up to basic conclusion.

  19. #78
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    4,742

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Rader;

    I think you are "sowing your seed on barren ground":rolleyes;

    I just don't know why some people have such difficulty with the concept of evaporative cooling.

    Some people get it; some people don't.

    Some people will, and some people won't!
    Frank

  20. #79
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    10,840

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Quote Originally Posted by Artur_M View Post
    Rader, what is cooler? car with open windows or closed windows under the sun?
    Why the house roofs/attics have vents and in some cases vent-fans ??
    In neither of those scenarios is the temperature inside the attic or car going to get below the ambient outside air temperature. The very best that one can hope for is that the attic/car temperature is reduced to the same as the outside temperature, and that is why those vents/windows are there.

    Note that beehives have something that cars and attics don't have - a sophisticated 'inside' misting system to facilitate evaporative cooling of that space. The bees in a hive manage that evaporative cooling system - if humans let them!

    And those bees can reduce the temperature of the hive to below ambient outside air temperature, which cannot be done in a car without mechanical air conditioning.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  21. #80
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    61

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Looks like people don't know anything about "swamp cooler" aka. "evaporative cooler". It's an old fashion AC.
    db40aa27e08fd784efccac196409ff9f.jpg

    One would not open windows and doors ajar while running AC at his own home, why to do that favor to bees?

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