ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards - Page 8
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  1. #141
    Join Date
    May 2018
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    Dripping Springs, TX
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    4

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    Welcome to Beesource, Sharon!


    Assuming you mean "why" do bees sometimes abscond from open screened bottom hives, most likely its a combination of factors.

    First, lets note that there are some partisans that argue that open screened bottoms are not the problem, its just a coincidence.

    In my opinion, new packages are less of a cohesive unit than an established hive. Package worker bees are not necessarily from the same original colony (before they were put in the package). They certainly don't 'know' their queen, except for the time in the package.

    And, as noted by some posters earlier in this thread, the open bottom allows more light and airflow in the hive than in hives with a solid bottom (or a box with the screen closed off). Bees heavily rely on pheromones for communication, and excessive airflow may disrupt/impede such communication. Open screen bottoms impede the bees ability to thermo-regulate their brood nest.

    So, in my opinion, its a number of individually (possibly small) factors, but when added together some new packages just decide that the conditions are not right, and decide to 'seek their fortune' elsewhere.
    Thank you. That makes a lot of sense.

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  3. #142
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Dripping Springs, TX
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    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Wise View Post
    Thank you. That makes a lot of sense.
    I am new here and I can't tell if my reply went through so I will try again.

    Hoping for some advice. I have a new package of bees arriving. I have changed back to a solid bottom board. I was wondering if you saw any problem with putting a queen excluder between the brood box and bottom board just until they get brood established. That way the queen cannot leave so they all stay, right?

    Thanks,

    Sharon

  4. #143
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mtn. View, Arkansas, USA
    Posts
    2,739

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    That was the recommended solution to the absconding of packages given by the Root Company when package bees first began. It works most of the time, as do most beekeeping manipulations. After the queen has laid in constructed comb, and the eggs have hatched, the excluder can be removed. Most of the time open larvae will prevent bees from leaving a hive.
    42 + years - 24 colonies - IPM disciple - Naturally Skeptic

  5. #144
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Dripping Springs, TX
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    4

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Thank you! I will try that. Don't want to lose another package of bees.

  6. #145
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Laurel Hill, Fl
    Posts
    1,120

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Quote Originally Posted by DerTiefster View Post
    About the third time I heard screened bottom boards described, I thought to myself, "Why not put a tray of oil (or soapy water) under that to kill anything the bees push out through the screen?" I later read of the Freeman Beetle Trap. I've only heard good things about it, and I use several. Seems to have all of the screened bottom board pluses and it seals up well at will to limit most other bad effects mentioned. The tray can be as opaque as you want, to keep the hive dark (black spray paint).

    I see someone else has pointed to this example, also. Good. I still think that trap design is sound. I like the polyethylene (I think) trays used because they can seal pretty well against the base of the hive and address some of the over-ventilation issues others complain about.

    Michael

    I used SBB for years and found that the hives with SBB had fewer mites. Which may or may not have anything to do with the SBB. Thou I do remember a UF study that showed hives with SBB had fewer mites than Hives right next to them in the same yards. But Freeman Beetle Trap kill the heck out of SHB as well as mites that fall.
    I've got them on all my hives now.
    Robbin NW Florida(8A) / 14 hives / 5 Nucs / 6th Year / T {OAV & MMK}

  7. #146
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Greenville, NC, USA
    Posts
    166

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    I think this is an issue with location. I use IPM boards but with oil pans underneath. I remove the pans for July and August but then they go back on to help control SHB, wax moths, and any varroa that want to go swimming.

  8. #147
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Pelham Alabama
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Hey guys I'm a new beginner and have two hives and waiting on my packages to arrive first of April. One hive has screened bottom board and the other is solid. The screened one has a slot to install a cover of some sort. Can I cut a piece of plywood to put in it to close it up?
    Thanks for any input. Also what kind of feeder do you recommend? So many choices!!!

  9. #148
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,654

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    >Can I cut a piece of plywood to put in it to close it up?

    Or coroplast, or even temporarily a piece of cardboard...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  10. #149
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Jacksonville, Morgan County, IL
    Posts
    205

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Quote Originally Posted by thesecurityeagle View Post
    And a frame of eggs/larvae are not a bad thing and if you don't have that some drawn empty comb sure does help.
    Drawn comb and if you have a partial (or full) comb of honey from one that didn't survive the winter, put that in.

    I know, I know.......someone is going to shout 'But The Disease Risk !!!'.......the usual cautions apply here.

    Of course, if you aren't aware of if a colony died of disease rather than failing queen, lack of size, etc rather than disease, maybe you need to learn how to diagnose that happened, a.k.a. do a Hive Autopsy.

  11. #150
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    511

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Quote Originally Posted by Earthboy View Post
    "It doesn't matter how much "ventilation" you provide in hot weather - ventilation can NEVER reduce the hive temperature below the ambient air temperature. Since bees want their brood area temperature at 93-94 degrees F 24/7, and if its 99 F, outside, "ventilation" means that there will be a lot of 99 degree air flowing through the hive."

    On a hot day when the bees on the wooden bottom are busy fanning, counter the number of them at the entrance, and then replace the wooden bottom with a screened one. Then counter the number of the fanning bees. Until you do this "scientific experiment," please spare me your "science."

    Dr. Kim
    So Dr. Kim, How do you count the bees on the bottom of the comb that are fanning? Did you worm your way under the hive and shine the flash light up there to count. the ones you see are not the only fanning bees with the SBB in.

  12. #151
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Delhi, Delaware Cty, New York, USA
    Posts
    1,520

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Rereading some of this thread...no one has mentioned one important fact regarding fanning; the bees bring in water for the inside of the hive so fanning this water will cool the hive somewhat due to evaporation, like our bodies sweat when hot and the sweat evaporates off our bodies and cools us. Deb
    Western Catskill Mountains
    Proverbs 16:24

  13. #152

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    Iím a 2nd year novice and Iím in daytona beach. I had 2 hives die last year because of hive Beatles. I have used small beetle traps with some success. I still have the beetles though. I built a screen bottom board with the tray under neath where Iíve put vegetable oil. In 1 week Iíve killed about 20 beetles. So I moved the screen board trap to another hive and hopefully will get all those beetles also. My point is with screen bottom board screen is not the problem.
    IMHO and Iím still learning

  14. #153
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Vestavia Hills, Al. USA
    Posts
    417

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    mineral oil like the cheap Equate Mineral Oil Lubricant Laxative @ walmart doesn't turn rancid like vegetable oil.
    Started April Fools Day 2017

  15. #154
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    3,565

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    It is clear that someone does not understand the concept of wet bulb temperature. That is the temperature that can be obtained through evaporative cooling. It is considerably lower than " ambient", depending on the relative humidity. The bees do understand this and use it to their advantage.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  16. #155
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,654

    Default Re: ATTN: New beekeepers with screened bottom boards

    >Hi mike, i really like your bush farms page �� !!! Lots of valuabe info there.

    Thanks.

    >...seems to me, to fill the boxes with brood would move faster going from bottom to top faster, and rotating the bottom brood box up after the brood hatches. ?

    Maybe.

    > Does this sound like your plan, a rotation of sorts?

    Not generally my plan. But if you have the time to spend (it's quite time consuming) you could age grade the hive and rotate the boxes. This plan has been put forth by Marla Spivak (she didn't claim to have invented it, but was proposing it) for queen rearing. The concept is to keep empty comb in front of the queen. So if you somewhat age grade a hive frame by frame and sort it into "stores", "open brood", "capped brood" and "empty comb". Then you can put the stores wherever you like (I like the bottom so I don't have to lift them as much) then an excluder on each side of the queen box and empty comb (with some kind of hole for the drones to escape). Then the open brood. Then the capped brood. Once a week you rotate the boxes so you put the top box (which was capped brood) with the queen above an excluder over the stores again. Then the box the queen was in which is now open brood next. Then the box that was open brood on top as capped brood. Then, in a flow, add supers above that. As they fill you can either harvest or move them to the bottom. If you do this every week the queen always has somewhere to lay and the brood is very age graded. This maximized the area the queen has to lay and once the process is underway you can mostly just juggle boxes.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

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