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Thread: Nicot 101

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Forsyth, Missouri
    Posts
    663

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    I have been reading and rereading this thread.
    I am going to give this a try this year with 2 cassette's.
    I started by picking 2 fully drawn deep frames and cutting the space needed for the cassette.
    After mounting each in a frame, I put a coat of wax over the entire surface were the queen will be caged.
    I then painted the top bars RED and numbered 1 & 2.
    I installed them March 1st in the hives I would like to raise queens from.
    We were very warm, some 80% days.
    Then it got COLD and some snow.
    Today I had time to check the strongest hive and the comb around the nicot cassette was full of caped to fresh laid eggs.
    We are going to have a stretch of good weather so I thought why not.
    I found the Queen on the next frame over so I placed her in the nicot cassette with the cover installed.
    I will leave her alone till Sunday evening.
    I will check the other hive tomorrow.
    Zone 6b 1400'

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  3. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    St. Stephen, N.B. Canada
    Posts
    266

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Quote Originally Posted by aunt betty View Post
    Day -5) make up cell builder(s)
    Day -2) put Nicot into mother hive so bees can clean it
    Day 0) install queen into Nicot
    Day 4) put Nicot cups into the cell builder (s) Day 4 is flexible. You're in limbo until you see just hatched egg or the 3-day larva
    Day 10) count cells
    Day 11) make up mating nucs on day 10 or 11 install roller covers
    Gets wishy-washy about what day to transfer cells to mating nucs.
    I'm guessing day 11-14 because they might start emerging on day 15.


    The author of the book seems to think we're reading it for humor and entertainment. He gets all caught up on telling all about the dumb mistakes he's made and it gets sort of hard to follow at this point. Out of the blue he mentions an incubator.
    I have no plans of purchasing or building an incubator.

    I'll have to re-read it some more. Author turns a page of text into a 318-page book.
    If someone does not mind could you refine what I've posted into the day calendar. I have some other resources and can figure it out
    but not everyone does. This is a public website and many of the people using Nicot for the first time could benefit from it.
    Thanks.
    Aunt Betty I'm having a hard time to attaching this interactive excel file. I can just add the date on the upper right and all the dates adjust.
    When I figure it out maybe I can post for all.

    Queen Rearing Time Table
    Enter start date:-Queen to Nicot MM/DD/YR 5/1/2017

    Day Date Weekday Queen Stage Description
    -1 30-Apr Sunday Place nicot or cell bars in Mother colony for cleaning
    0 1-May Monday Start Queen to nicot cage
    1 2-May Tuesday Eggs laid Remove Queen from nicot cage
    2 3-May Wednesday Eggs 24-42 hours Make up cell builder
    3 4-May Thursday Eggs 48-66 hours Transfer larvae to cell builder colony
    4 5-May Friday Larvae 0-18 hours
    5 6-May Saturday Larvae
    6 7-May Sunday Larvae
    7 8-May Monday Larvae
    8 9-May Tuesday Larvae Gorging
    9 10-May Wednesday Cells sealed Cells Sealed
    10 11-May Thursday Pre pupae Pre pupae
    11 12-May Friday Pupae Pupae
    12 13-May Saturday Pupae Pupae
    13 14-May Sunday Pupae Pupae
    14 15-May Monday Pupae Make up nucs to receive Queen cells
    15 16-May Tuesday Pupae Nucs confined
    16 17-May Wednesday Queens Emerge Nucs confined
    17 18-May Thursday Nucs to mating site/release at dusk
    18 19-May Friday Check nucs for failed cells
    19 20-May Saturday
    20 21-May Sunday
    21 22-May Monday Queen Mature
    28 29-May Monday Q mating complete Check nucs for laying
    On the border near 04619
    Zone 5B @ 29m

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Surrey BC Canada
    Posts
    71

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    frogpondwarrior

    Send me an email and will send you the excel program that would work............ interactive excel files DO NOT work through this site........ you would have go through private e-mail my email [email protected]

    Thanks
    Dale

  5. #44
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Champaign, Illinois
    Posts
    2,461

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Am going to have mating nucs in the production yards. It worked great last year on a small scale.
    Have not had any desire to move mating nucs to distant locations because the area I'm in is rich with bee hives and drones. There are around 50 colonies in a circle of 0.75 mile diameter. If I expand the circle the numbers of colonies get large.
    Not too worried about genetics. Local survivor bees mating with local survivors seems like it's a half-way decent idea.
    My theory on genetics is to work with locals that survived.
    It's getting close to the time to get chugging.
    Tomorrow looks like a good day for inspecting and making the beginnings of a plan on which hives will be the cell builders.

    Have hives in duplex 4/4/4 configuration. Those will be needing to go into full-size boxes so I can use the "nucs" when I need them for mating. Have lots of empty deeps with drawn combs. Five of them are full of honey frames. That'll be helpful when setting up the mating nucs etc.
    Losing colonies isn't such a bad thing if you can rescue the boxes and comb. I'm rich with that sort of thing right now.
    Starting to get anxious and excited.

    The numbers of drones I see tomorrow will determine my schedule.
    This season is going to be a lot of fun trying something new.

    Have two more Q.C.s in the garage. Sorry about the rotating thing but my cheap chrome-book fights me on it.
    20170318_201127.jpg
    Internet credibility is an oxymoron

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Forsyth, Missouri
    Posts
    663

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    I checked my yards around were I am going to place most of my mating nucs.
    I was surprised how many drowns were in the hives.
    Zone 6b 1400'

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    St. Stephen, N.B. Canada
    Posts
    266

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Quote Originally Posted by wdale View Post
    frogpondwarrior

    Send me an email and will send you the excel program that would work............ interactive excel files DO NOT work through this site........ you would have go through private e-mail my email [email protected]

    Thanks
    Dale
    Sent it and hope it works well for you. Didn't know they would not work. thanks....save me some time and effort.
    Ron
    On the border near 04619
    Zone 5B @ 29m

  8. #47
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Sacramento County, CA
    Posts
    877

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    We placed our Nicot box in the hive yesterday. Today, we opened up the hive again to mark the queen...this specific hive is thriving more than any other hive we have ever raised by a leaps and bounds...and the queen is the largest, healthiest, and scariest queen bee we have ever seen.

    BUT, I am a little concerned...nearly all the bees are super large compared to our other colonies...AND, they appear to be radically more upset when we try to work with them. Most of our other hives have bees that are incredibly docile and super easy to work with...BUT, this specific hive that is thriving appears to have a major anger issue. Today, they kept attacking me repeatedly during the Cloake board installation, wax cell clean up, hive reversal process, and the painting/marking of the queen. I kinda prefer the more gentle bees, but this hive went from somewhat small cluster to over 40,000 bees in less than a month. As I mentioned earlier, I have never seen anything like this before. Upper supers are dripping with honey.

    We plan on placing the queen in the laying box tomorrow for three to four days. We also plan on closing the door on the Cloake board, making the upper super queenless for next three to four days too.

    We are totally open to suggestions and ideas.

    Kinda new to all this...

    Thanks!

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    7,861

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    What make you think that placing the mating nucs next to the production hives will not cause a robbing during the
    summer dearth? Unless you have very strong mating nucs there is a chance that the stronger hives will rob them out.
    Are the local drones all treatment free also?
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  10. #49
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Champaign, Illinois
    Posts
    2,461

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    What make you think that placing the mating nucs next to the production hives will not cause a robbing during the
    summer dearth? Unless you have very strong mating nucs there is a chance that the stronger hives will rob them out.
    Are the local drones all treatment free also?
    My queen rearing will be done by dearth. I'm making a round or two for me and that's it. Our flow ends in early July.
    Robbing is not exactly a big issue here unless a hive is dying or dead.
    Where I live it is not legal to be commercial. Am an urban beekeeper.
    Sure I'd like to produce queens and sells nucs but that would attract unwanted attention from the city council.
    It is what it is and it's not California.

    Went thru 13 in one of the yards this morning. Not enough drones here yet to start in on the nicot thing.
    Eighteen in the back yard still wrapped. I'll work on those after lunch.
    It was around 25 degrees this morning but it warmed up to 50 degrees by 10:30.

    I am not treatment free.
    Internet credibility is an oxymoron

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    7,861

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Thinking outside the box a bit. It is not illegal to be commercial or a side liner outside of your state. What is
    the closest state or county that is legal to do it. Think big and grow your operation should you want to partner up
    with someone else who can do it.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Forsyth, Missouri
    Posts
    663

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Up date
    I placed the Queen in the nicot cassette on 3/17/17.
    I had planed on transferring larva yesterday after dinner.
    BUT the phone rang and I had a swarm call to go on. (5-6+lbs in hive now)
    Today we had some sever thunder storms but I didn't want to leave the Queen in the cassette any longer.
    I made up my starter hive with 2 full frames of caped honey and 2 full frames of pollen rubbed in to old brood frames.
    I shook in 10 frames of bees from another hive.
    Not as many as I was hopping for.
    I let them sit while I had dinner.
    I removed the nicot frame and released the Queen and brushed most of the workers off the caped brood on the rest of the frame.
    When I got in my wood shop with better light all I could see was eggs.
    One in every cell. WOW
    I placed 26 cups on bars and placed the cell frame in the starter hive.
    All the cups I used had a ring of wax at the bottom of the cup, like they were starting to draw them out.

    Did I do right in just using eggs or would they have dun better if they were larva?
    Remember this is my first time using the nicot system.
    Last edited by Hoot Owl Lane Bees; 03-21-2017 at 06:31 PM. Reason: add info
    Zone 6b 1400'

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Isle of Wight, VA
    Posts
    2,762

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Hoot Owl, I have read that the bees will just eat the eggs in a queen cup, although I don't know that first hand. I won't use my Nicot system until early next month. If the queen started laying on the 17th, you should have had some eggs that were hatched already.

  14. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Forsyth, Missouri
    Posts
    663

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    ruthiesbees
    I had heard that also about eating the eggs.
    I don,t think she started to lay until yesterday as Sunday evening I did not see anything but wax in the cups.
    I went ahead and tried as I did not want to leave her confined any longer this early in the spring.
    I may be learning the hard way?
    Zone 6b 1400'

  15. #54
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    7,861

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Don't be too harsh on yourself. Or blame everything on you.
    In desperate time when the bees need a queen they will allow the
    eggs to turn into larvae inside the cups. A hive with only these
    eggs will not clean them out completely. Even if they do some eggs will be
    left alone. It all depends on how desperate the bees are for a new queen. Feed
    them well so that they will not be hungry and go after the eggs. Do you have some
    pics for us on the nicot cage frame and set up? How are the cell cups placed on the nicot frame?
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  16. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Forsyth, Missouri
    Posts
    663

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Sorry beepro
    This is one of my biggest problems, camera is an after thought when I have something to do.
    I will be opening the starter Friday evening and will do my best to take some pictures.
    As I was removing the cup I was wondering about them only having eggs.
    I was only going to try for about 10 cells this first time but thought maby with more cup they may start some Queens.
    I will report my findings ether way Friday evening.
    Zone 6b 1400'

  17. #56
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Champaign, Illinois
    Posts
    2,461

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    If you follow the chart...see day 4.
    That's where you should be first spotting the newly hatched larva that in theory hatch on day 3.5.
    Fresh laid eggs stand up. When they start laying down that means they're about to pop.
    You want to install freshly hatched larva stage into the cell-builder(s).

    I'm still deciding when I want day -5 to be. Looks like soon. Ideally I'd be using my new mated queens by the end of April.
    Starting to see some drones now. In about a week I'll choose my mother colony and cell builders.
    One in particular looks like it's about to need splitting so am leaning towards using it as both a mother colony and a cell builder too. It's a really strong hive.

    Going to have to hurry to beat the dandelion bloom.
    Internet credibility is an oxymoron

  18. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Harrison Ar
    Posts
    284

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Quote Originally Posted by aunt betty View Post
    Got that book now. It's pretty clear on the whens and whys. Has jumbo sized print.
    Could skip the first 146 pages because it's sort of wordy and is all about why the author wanted to raise his own queens and why the reader would want to.
    Thanks dlbrightjr !
    Really appreciate having something to read on the days when it's not bee time yet.
    Your very welcome. I hope you have good success. I hope to follow your progress.

  19. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Forsyth, Missouri
    Posts
    663

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    The weather is preventing me from doing anything with the hives.
    We are supposed to get some breaks tomorrow.

    aunt betty
    I had not thought about the eggs standing until they hatch.
    In all the cups they were laying down.
    I may end up with a lot more than I planed on.
    I will know better tomorrow when the rain stops.
    Zone 6b 1400'

  20. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Forsyth, Missouri
    Posts
    663

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    I have my first NICOT Queen cells.
    We have had rain most of the day and I didn't want to leave them in the starter another night/day.
    Today is 5 days in the starter.

    It is 56% and no more rain on the radar coming my way.
    I removed 5 frames from my cell finisher and placed the cell frame, 1 pollen & replaced 3 of the frames that had caped brood back in the cell finisher.
    I had a total of 10 cells that had larvae in them, one was drawn out all most to the point of being capped.
    I will have to check tomorrow to see if it is caped and install a cage over it.

    100_9627.jpg
    Zone 6b 1400'

  21. #60
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Wilsonville,Alabama,USA
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    nicot 2.jpgWe started March 6th following the guidelines that Grant Gillard had posted on line. Preparing cell builder, warming the laying box, placing the queen in the laying box, cutting down the cell builder, removing laying box and attaching cups to cup holder. First time using the system and we got 18+ queen cells. Lots of bees in cell builder.
    We had to adjust some of the schedule due to weather. When placing queen in laying box our temperature at night went down to around 28 for 2 day. It took 6 day to get 1 day old larva in the laying box.
    Time consuming but worth the effort.

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