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Thread: Nicot 101

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    Seattle WA
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Juhani, The entire purpose of the Nicot system is to avoid grafting. That is why the original poster is confused by your answers. If you are going to graft into the Nicot cell cups, why bother with the kit at all? You would just be doing a graft into cell cups. The OP is not a professional beekeeper. Yes, grafting is way more common but the Nicot system is another option for those who wish to try something new and different.

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    May 2015
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    Champaign, Illinois
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Now that I have a kit in hand I can explain the needle confusion.
    To remove the cups from the cassette you use the cup holder. They call it a tool. The cream colored things.
    Must be a translation error from French to Chinese to English.
    https://www.mannlakeltd.com/complete-queen-rearing-kit
    Got mine shipped from Great Britain for $36.99.
    Once I master this thing I'll make a report.
    I plan on putting the cassette in asap and let it be for about two or three weeks so it can get cleaned and get the smell.
    Internet credibility is an oxymoron

  4. #23

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Quote Originally Posted by aunt betty View Post
    Now that I have a kit in hand I can explain the needle confusion.
    To remove the cups from the cassette you use the cup holder. They call it a tool. The cream colored things.
    Must be a translation error from French to Chinese to English.
    https://www.mannlakeltd.com/complete-queen-rearing-kit
    Got mine shipped from Great Britain for $36.99.
    Once I master this thing I'll make a report.
    I plan on putting the cassette in asap and let it be for about two or three weeks so it can get cleaned and get the smell.
    Language barrier, we donīt even need walls...

    The Mannlake picture must have an error. As you can see from the instructions (on Mannlake site, below the picture of the kit) the little black item, most numrous one, in the picture, does not include to Nicot system.

    In the link I posted before you can see the right stuff:
    http://www.beckysbeesonlineshop.co.u...set-3689-p.asp

  5. #24

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Quote Originally Posted by dudelt View Post
    Juhani, The entire purpose of the Nicot system is to avoid grafting. That is why the original poster is confused by your answers. If you are going to graft into the Nicot cell cups, why bother with the kit at all? You would just be doing a graft into cell cups. The OP is not a professional beekeeper. Yes, grafting is way more common but the Nicot system is another option for those who wish to try something new and different.
    As I said Nicot system is THE most popular queen rearing set in Europe and surely today is is not understood to avoid grafting, but to produce queens. (99% without the laying cage, which is not practical.)

    OP did not say what kind of kit it was. It did not say what items there were. Kit is something I understand is a collection of items which belong together in order to accomplish some task.
    OP says she has experience in queen rearing but "not a lot of grafting". From that you can be understood two things: 1. She wants to learn more of grafting(beesource is about learning) 2. She wants to avoid doing it.

  6. #25
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    As I said Nicot system is THE most popular queen rearing set in Europe and surely today is is not understood to avoid grafting, but to produce queens. (99% without the laying cage, which is not practical.)

    OP did not say what kind of kit it was. It did not say what items there were. Kit is something I understand is a collection of items which belong together in order to accomplish some task.
    OP says she has experience in queen rearing but "not a lot of grafting". From that you can be understood two things: 1. She wants to learn more of grafting(beesource is about learning) 2. She wants to avoid doing it.
    no. you are wrong
    what the op said was that they want instructions advice to learn how to use the Nicot system.
    reread the op post below

    the first paragraph lays out their experience, second is a statement sentence. 3rd is asking for help, a question posed as a statement sentence.


    Quote Originally Posted by aunt betty View Post
    Have ordered a Nicot queen rearing kit and would like some lessons. The book store don't have the book here. Library? Struck out there too.
    Are the directions that come with the kit sufficient?
    Have experience with queen rearing but not a lot of grafting and for sure I've never used Nicot.

    Suppose I could order the book online. I'm just to cheap. Got the kit ordered real cheap. Probably a Chinese knockoff.
    Help?

    It's not supposed to get here by around 3-15 so I got time to get some instruction if y'all don't mind.
    Have queen rearing essentials so I do have something to reference.

  7. #26

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidZ View Post
    no. you are wrong
    what the op said was that they want instructions advice to learn how to use the Nicot system.
    reread the op post below

    the first paragraph lays out their experience, second is a statement sentence. 3rd is asking for help, a question posed as a statement sentence.
    Do you really think I did not give any useful advise or help in my posts number 9, 10 and 11?

    If so, I resign. In fact you made me feel so bad that I began to think what on earth Iīm doing here writing these (in my mind helpful) posts for nothing. Just getting attacks.

    Oh boy.

  8. #27
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    May 2015
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Don't take it hard Juhani. Blame it on me. I'm ok.
    Here is where I am at in the process. Someone is sending me the Nicot Queen Rearing book. They saw this thread and offered.
    The only combs I have without plasticell are in top bars. Twas easy to hack a hole in the comb.
    It'll fit in the Lang that it's headed for.
    Thanks

    20170301_122341.jpg
    20170301_122334 (1).jpg

    Am planning on taking the queen exluder (front) off. Will spray it with syrup and let the bees clean it up and then give it a whirl in about three or four weeks. Need to see some drones before I get too hasty.

    Now I've seen a video where a guy used a "laying frame" and had the Nicot cups in that frame.
    Where do you get a laying frame? Is that just a sheet of plasticell or what?
    Looked sort of easy to use that frame.
    Internet credibility is an oxymoron

  9. #28
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    Jun 2014
    Location
    Boone County, Indiana, USA
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    156

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Juhani - don't get upset, I think language and misunderstanding are at fault.

    Why is grafting into the Nicot cells so popular? JZ BZ queen cells are a lot cheaper since one does not have to buy two more 'cell holder' parts to attach the actual cell cup to a frame. My guess is that it is because the Nicot queen cage is available and it fits nicely on the Nicot cell holder...?

  10. #29
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    Jun 2014
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    Boone County, Indiana, USA
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    double post - deleted

  11. #30
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    If you look at my pictures the grafting frame has two rows of jzbz queen cups attached. I tried grafting with awful results two summers ago. Cost me a colony of bees that absconded on me. Was trying cloake boarding. My timing was real bad. Tried it in July. Bad Betty, bad.

    It looked really good for two days. Then I looked in the bottom. Was an SHB failure. Got slimed pretty good.
    If you look closely you can see the bent piece of aluminum I used to separate the queen downstairs.
    20150728_120613.jpg
    Internet credibility is an oxymoron

  12. #31
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    Jun 2010
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    Martin, Tn
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    One quick tip I'll add that i got from M. Bush. Put the cassette frame in the middle of the brood nest and let the bees draw out the empty space around the cassette. When there are eggs in that comb you are ready to put the queen in the cassette. I had a problem when i first started using my nicot system in that the queen would lay then the workers would just discard the eggs. Queen would lay again, discard... over and over. They never let the eggs hatch. After letting them start to raise brood in the empty spaces i put the queen back in and boom, they started letting the eggs hatch and feeding the neonates. Ended up making some pretty good queens with this system and i just started the process to raise more this year. Grant's "simplified queen rearing" is free to download and gives a very detailed step by step instruction.
    Jason Young

  13. #32
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    Dec 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  14. #33
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    May 2015
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Got that book now. It's pretty clear on the whens and whys. Has jumbo sized print.
    Could skip the first 146 pages because it's sort of wordy and is all about why the author wanted to raise his own queens and why the reader would want to.
    Thanks dlbrightjr !
    Really appreciate having something to read on the days when it's not bee time yet.
    Internet credibility is an oxymoron

  15. #34
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Day -5) make up cell builder(s)
    Day -2) put Nicot into mother hive so bees can clean it
    Day 0) install queen into Nicot
    Day 4) put Nicot cups into the cell builder (s) Day 4 is flexible. You're in limbo until you see just hatched egg or the 3-day larva
    Day 10) count cells
    Day 11) make up mating nucs on day 10 or 11 install roller covers
    Gets wishy-washy about what day to transfer cells to mating nucs.
    I'm guessing day 11-14 because they might start emerging on day 15.


    The author of the book seems to think we're reading it for humor and entertainment. He gets all caught up on telling all about the dumb mistakes he's made and it gets sort of hard to follow at this point. Out of the blue he mentions an incubator.
    I have no plans of purchasing or building an incubator.

    I'll have to re-read it some more. Author turns a page of text into a 318-page book.
    If someone does not mind could you refine what I've posted into the day calendar. I have some other resources and can figure it out
    but not everyone does. This is a public website and many of the people using Nicot for the first time could benefit from it.
    Thanks.
    Last edited by aunt betty; 03-11-2017 at 02:22 PM.
    Internet credibility is an oxymoron

  16. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Surrey BC Canada
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    71

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    I have used the NICOT system for the pas 3 years and have had great success with. I have made up a EXCEL sheet to go with system but you would have to e-mail me at [email protected] as the site will not allow me to post the full macro hidden attributes here. I guess loss in computer language?? So e-mail if you want and I'll send in return

  17. #36
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    May 2015
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    Sacramento County, CA
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    I used the Nicot queen rearing system last summer for the first time. I like the system very much but made some terrible mistakes that affected my success. Now I am preparing to utilize the Nicot system again, but this time avoid the mistakes I made the first time.

    BTW, I read the book too and I hated it. The large majority of the book is about the author's own personal thoughts and feelings on queen raising, and all sorts of other unnecessary trains of thoughts. Dang, he could have written the pertinent and required info and done it with 75% less pages! Worst part for me, it was unedited and had so many typos that I wanted to throw it out.

    I sure would like a nice Excel/Calendar for helping me to be dead on with the timing...

    Please help me if ya can!

    Thank you!

  18. #37
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    Dec 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Today is my first time using the Nicot system. Tested it last winter and refined some processes for better laying. Basically I just
    jump to day zero to put the queen inside to lay skipping the other unnecessary steps. This is because the queen will take some time
    to get used to the cage environment. I already got her somewhat trained the last winter on a test run. In the meantime the bees can clean out the cells a bit too. The next step is to find a booming hive to consolidate the bees for a cell builder/finisher. Already got my eyes on one booming hive. I will be concentrating all my effort to these cells as a homemade QC incubator already been made. So the cell builder set up will consist of 5 full pollen frames with the cell frame right in the middle of the 5 frame nuc box. From last year found out that just using the full pollen frames without the cap broods or any open larvae will make bigger cells and better laying queens. All effort are on these cells now. Spring days will be here in full swing another week or so. Now is the time!
    Last edited by beepro; 03-12-2017 at 08:40 PM.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  19. #38
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    May 2015
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    Sacramento County, CA
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Thanks to Wdale for the excel worksheet! Nice job Dale!

    I just finished building a Cloake board to use in conjunction with the Nicot system. It was super easy! Hope to begin the process this week.

    As mentioned earlier, we tried the Nucot method last year, but we made a number of mistakes. Hope some can learn from our mistakes:

    1. Used a smaller, weaker hive when beginning the process [only got 25-30 queens instead of the full 110].
    2. Did not carefully keep track of the time [lost some queens in the process].
    3. Did not have enough bees, eggs, larvae for the nearly 30 queens we hatched [threw away 20 queens].
    4. Installed robbing screens on the nucs, causing many of the returning freshly mated queens to not be able to return to their nuc [lost over half our nucs].
    5. Started the process way to late in the season [August heat wave killed a number of our queens].

    New Plan:

    1. Use a super strong hive when beginning the process [we should have 100+ queens instead of the meager 20-30].
    2. Keep careful track of the time [keep a daily journal].
    3. Wait until we have several strong 20+ frame hives, then be able to set queens in healthy nucs.
    4. Do NOT install robbing screens on the nucs. AND, make certain to set nucs all around the property, each nuc a minimum of 25 ft. apart.
    5. Start the Nicot process in March or April, not in August heat wave.

  20. #39
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    By April we should be in the mid-80s or so. Nightly low is in the mid-50s here. This is an ideal time to start
    test grafting. I saw the purple eyes drones already. That means it is time to make some new Spring queens. Spacing out
    the mating nuc is a good idea. Also don't forget to feed the small nucs patty subs and syrup too. Have a good feeling that this is
    going to be a great bee year with all the rains in the past. I will be refining my Nicot cage to see how many eggs I can get without
    resort to grafting first. All system go now!
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  21. #40
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    May 2015
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    I'm looking at starting around March 23rd as day -5. Put the queen into the cage on Day zero. Long-range forecast says I better wait so we'll see.

    The thing I noticed in the book is that the author recommended setting up FOUR cell builders because some things like having a second queen that you missed can really screw things up if you end up with a queen in the cell builder. If you only set up one so he says do four. I can do four cell builders but...in the process of setting up the cell builders they'll for sure build queen cells which I will harvest and use. That'd sort of make it so I don't need the Nicot because I'm not wanting 100 queens but am shooting for 20-30. Anything over that will stretch my resources a bit thin. At this point I'm running a trial.

    Having four cell builders won't be a bad thing as I can break them up into the mating nucs when I get the cells built.
    Not going to mess around with starters and finishers. Just let the cell builders build and finish.

    Might be making some big mistakes but I'll be ok. Have a lot of experience with queen rearing already. Just not grafting or Nicot.
    The whole idea is to have fun and requeen my own hives from a certain pair of awesome honey producers from last year.
    The university of Illinois gave me a couple queens two seasons ago and the splits I've made from them are really strong and produce lots of honey.

    I'll try and remember to post some pics and report but no guarantees because once season starts I'm super busy with mowing, gardening, and bees. It's great to have tasks lined up but also a bit stressful at times.
    Last edited by aunt betty; 03-15-2017 at 07:38 PM.
    Internet credibility is an oxymoron

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