Nicot 101
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Thread: Nicot 101

  1. #1
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    Default Nicot 101

    Have ordered a Nicot queen rearing kit and would like some lessons. The book store don't have the book here. Library? Struck out there too.
    Are the directions that come with the kit sufficient?
    Have experience with queen rearing but not a lot of grafting and for sure I've never used Nicot.

    Suppose I could order the book online. I'm just to cheap. Got the kit ordered real cheap. Probably a Chinese knockoff.
    Help?

    It's not supposed to get here by around 3-15 so I got time to get some instruction if y'all don't mind.
    Have queen rearing essentials so I do have something to reference.
    Internet credibility is an oxymoron

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  3. #2
    Join Date
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    Washington County, Maine
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Grant Gillard, who used to post here, has a couple of books you might be interested in on Amazon. NICOT Queen Rearing: The Non-Grafting Method for Raising Local Queens is available for Kindle @ $6.00.


  4. #3
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    Isle of Wight, VA
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    couple of youtube videos out there

  5. #4
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    cool ridge, wv, USA
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    agree that Grant Gillard has good book on it. as with all methods of queen rearing the devil is in the details. Still need a very good cell starter / finisher. Some queens dont like to/ or wont lay in it. Have to keep watch on it, difficult to see day old larvae if you dont have full sun and realize that queen may lay slowly in box, sometimes only 8-10 a day

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Some beekeepers have told me that there is a high rate of superseding the queen after using the Nicot method of queen rearing. Has anyone else seen that occur in their bees.

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    I have had queens in box before that colony started making supersedure cells- just starting. So yes you need to check in hive ; if queen hasnt started laying in 4-5 days chances are she wont. I have noticed Italians seemed to lay more readily that Carniolans, for me

  8. #7

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Quote Originally Posted by wvbeeguy View Post
    So yes you need to check in hive ; if queen hasnt started laying in 4-5 days chances are she wont.
    Yep, some queens lay right away, some just wonīt do it.

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    The instructions that come with the kit are definitely NOT sufficient. I am planning to try the kit this year for the first time too and have read Gillard's book several times this winter. I like knowing what I am doing. He has a lot of good advice in the book and I would advise getting a copy. I believe it will save a lot of headaches. He does mention the supercedure issue in the book.

  10. #9

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Quote Originally Posted by aunt betty View Post
    so I got time to get some instruction if y'all don't mind.
    Have queen rearing essentials so I do have something to reference.
    What is what you donīt understand?

    there are several parts in Nicot system:

    - Cell Cups, for the eggs to be layed, these come to
    - Cell Bar Cups, which come to
    - Cell Bar Blocks.

    http://www.beckysbeesonlineshop.co.u...set-3689-p.asp

    Fasten 15 Cell Bar Blocks, no space between, into a wooden bar with tiny tiny nails.
    Fasten this wooden bar into a frame, best way is to make it easily removable from the frame.

    When making larvae transfer (with needle) to Cell Cups, place a wet towel on top of the transfered larvae. They are NOT sensitive to cold, but they easily dry out to death.

    To use the laying cage:
    fasten it into a drawn frame with white wax. Cut out a piece of comb, same size as the box, fasten the box with just some wires around it for the first time, bees will fasten it with wax later on in the hive.

    Let the box be in the hive for couple of days or a week, before trying to make the queen lay, but be sure to keep the excluder side on!

    Put the queen in the box (Cell Cups in place on the other side), wait couple of days and check for the result. If she has layed in the box release her by taking the excluder (=front of the cage) away and wait until the larvae have hatched and are well fed before transfering them to Cell Bar Cups.
    Last edited by Juhani Lunden; 02-26-2017 at 12:36 AM.

  11. #10

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    After this point when the 1-2 day old larvae are in the Cell Cups, which are in the Cell Bar Cups, which are in Cell Bar Blocks, in the wooden bar, in the empty frame... now you need a cell builder colony.

    There are many instructions in bee books, but my advise is as follows:

    Take the strongest hive in the yard.

    Place a queens excluder in between the brood area, so that the queen in the lower part.

    Wait 4 days (This is to make all eggs to hatch in the upper part so that bees will get to the mood that there is something wrong with their dear queen because there are no eggs, the poor ones donīt get it that the reason in the excluder below).

    Arrange the top box above excluder so that there is in the middle of the box: frame with lots of open brood, empty space, frame with lots of pollen.

    Get the frame with larvae in Nicot cups and place it into this empty space.

  12. #11

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Now you wait for 5 days for the cells to be built.

    Then you can either place the Roller Queen Cages by gently pushing and twisting/rolling at the same time (to avoid damage to the queen cells, sometimes they are FAT) on the ready made cells, or you can use the queencells by placing them into whatsoever queensless hive, just between the frames.

  13. #12
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    When making larvae transfer (with needle) to Cell Cups, place a wet towel on top of the transfered larvae. They are NOT sensitive to cold, but they easily dry out to death.
    #huh!?!
    Internet credibility is an oxymoron

  14. #13

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Quote Originally Posted by aunt betty View Post
    #huh!?!
    Should I say moist.

  15. #14
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    With all due respect sir what kind of grafting tool do you use when you yourself personally graft into a Nicot cassette?
    Internet credibility is an oxymoron

  16. #15
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Lee View Post
    Some beekeepers have told me that there is a high rate of superseding the queen after using the Nicot method of queen rearing. Has anyone else seen that occur in their bees.
    I think this is the biggest potential issue with these systems. I really like the fact that you can move larvae without disturbing it, but it does require more intervention than grafting. I haven't used my Jenter system in several years, but it worked very well and I always got nice cells. I did lose a queen once, and I never figured out why. This makes me somewhat hesitant to put an extremely valuable breeder into the unit.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  17. #16

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Quote Originally Posted by aunt betty View Post
    With all due respect sir what kind of grafting tool do you use when you yourself personally graft into a Nicot cassette?
    Sir, wow...


    Graft into a Nicot cassette??? I donīt understand.

    Queen lays eggs into the "cassette" or cage, but if grafting is done by hand straight to the Cell Cups, I prefer the sc. Chineese grafting needle.

  18. #17

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Quote Originally Posted by AstroBee View Post
    I think this is the biggest potential issue with these systems. I really like the fact that you can move larvae without disturbing it, but it does require more intervention than grafting. I haven't used my Jenter system in several years, but it worked very well and I always got nice cells. I did lose a queen once, and I never figured out why. This makes me somewhat hesitant to put an extremely valuable breeder into the unit.

    I agree. The laying cage or "cassette" or whatever it is called does not work for a professional or any other beekeeper than hobbyist, and even then, it is not so handy. It takes away the most scaring part of queen rearing, grafting, and maybe there is some advantage of the larvae being very much the same age, but these are minor plusses compared to how glumsy it is compared to using a needle.

  19. #18
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    See post #12 and you'll understand why you got asked such a dumb question.
    Internet credibility is an oxymoron

  20. #19
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    Boone County, Indiana, USA
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    Default Re: Nicot 101

    When making larvae transfer (with needle) to Cell Cups, place a wet towel on top of the transfered larvae. They are NOT sensitive to cold, but they easily dry out to death.

    Quote Originally Posted by aunt betty View Post
    #huh!?!
    I believe that Juhani is referring to using a specific tool (needle?) that comes with the Nicot kit for removing the egg laying cell cup plastic piece from the frame and inserting that piece into the cell cup holder. He isn't doing any direct grafting of larvae, he's just moving the plastic piece using the tool.

  21. #20

    Default Re: Nicot 101

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Anderson View Post
    When making larvae transfer (with needle) to Cell Cups, place a wet towel on top of the transfered larvae. They are NOT sensitive to cold, but they easily dry out to death.

    I believe that Juhani is referring to using a specific tool (needle?) that comes with the Nicot kit for removing the egg laying cell cup plastic piece from the frame and inserting that piece into the cell cup holder. He isn't doing any direct grafting of larvae, he's just moving the plastic piece using the tool.
    Needle was a wrong word, I suppose, we call it in Finnish language a "grafting needle". Should it be grafting tool?


    There are two ways using the Nicot system:
    1. With the queen cage ("cassette")
    2. Without the queen cage

    The second way is WAY WAY more common, therefore I was writing about it.


    I suppose the Cell Cups can be a bit tricky to remove from the back of the laying cage, but all you need is some sort of sharp ended little stick. 20 years I used the cage last time... Nicot Cell Cups I use every summer.

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