Oxalic Acid and Honey Supers - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid and Honey Supers

    Quote Originally Posted by Groundhwg View Post
    DING DING DING - We have a winner. Well thought out and shared. Thanks.
    BING-BING-BING !!!

    Again, maybe I am too skeptical, but there are lots of stories that some drugs are good for you, but there are always side effects.
    On top of this you can see lots of lawyers commercials suing some pharmaceutical company because of some drug misusage, and it was "researched" and approved for use, but the actual result appeared after longer time then that drug was tested.

    So, in the world of chemistry, as anywhere else, never say never.

    Maybe bees are cleaning the comb well, maybe the amount is way low so it makes not much sense to argue about it, but totally eliminate the exposure and later cause is impossible.

    More examples: hand sanitizer is cleaning 99.99% of bacterias from your hands - why not 100% ? The toothpaste cleans 99.9% of bacterias from your teeth - why not 100% ??

    It is never 100%

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  3. #42
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid and Honey Supers

    Quote Originally Posted by Artur_M View Post
    why not 100% ?
    Only 2 things are 100% - death and taxes.

  4. #43
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid and Honey Supers

    artur
    I am kind of in a dilemma myself:

    I treated my bees with OAD last summer/fall (since I got them), but was doing OAD only the bottom (brood) box.
    This year in spring, I am planning to do the "switch" to prevent swarming, so the bottom box, where the dribbling happen, will become a super.

    I, myself, don't want "extra" ingredient in my honey.
    So what is the best to do?
    I do not mind how cautious you want to live your life if you don't mind me taking a more of the middle of the road route. It does beg to question why you would even ask the question if you already have your mind made up prior to asking it. I don't say this to make you agree with me. You have had some imput on the question you ask. My imput is that it would not hurt to use the brood box as a honey super. Somebody else said throw it away if you don't like it. (If you do throw it my way) I am wondering if you are going to use the top brood box and then just super it. If the bees make honey in the super and you are afraid that they might move some of that honey up from the brood box and taint the super, could you give that to me also. I will take a chance with my health under those conditions rather then waste it. It is not wrong to have standards and also to try for improvement. When you start talking 100% you may have a standard that no one could meet. Your arguement could take you pretty far. What if somebody treated and their hive died and your bees robbed them. It really does not hurt me however you handle what you have. I don't mind. You ask and I tried to help, you have my view, I promoted what I thought was reasonable and you promote what you think is reasonable and in the end everybody can do what they want. Instead of me trying to give you an answer to the question you ask, I will ask you one. What are you going to do about your question now that you have made up your mind? Are you going to put everything in a new box and on new comb and start over?
    You set the standard for your self, now what are you going to do. If my post seems harsh, it is not really ment to be. I am curious of how someone who sets the standard for themself that you have set is going to handle what you ask about.
    Good luck
    gww
    zone 5b

  5. #44
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid and Honey Supers

    Remember, the bees move resources all throughout their hive as needed. Whatever was in the bottom box was moved to some degree into all the boxes, either by moving stores or simply tracked around by the bees movement.

    If you truly want your hives to be without a doubt in your mind 100% pure, then the only option would be to burn the whole hive and start over. I think it all boils down to how much "possible" contamination or side effects you are willing to accept, vs. "probably" losing the hive eventually to mite pressure without treatments.
    To everything there is a season....

  6. #45
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid and Honey Supers

    When I see a proclaimed high concern about some micro possible danger while far greater dangers abound, it makes me question what the payoff really is.
    Frank

  7. #46
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid and Honey Supers

    I am far more concerned with what impression a new person gets by most comments about OA. I have no problem with a person choosing what they choose. But to spread ignorance because they did not take the time to know something is another thing. Case in point. Getting all worked up about a problem they think might exist until they bring regulation down upon themselves in regard to OA. While at the exact same time using several other chemicals in their hives with not one thought of need for regulation or violation of the same. Powdered sugar, C12H22O11. OA, C₂H₂O₄. Say what they are made up of the same stuff? And OA less of it? But beekeepers will dump powdered sugar in a hive without a seconds thought. but OA oh no what are you trying to do induce cancer in your bees?
    Everything gets darker, as it goes to where there is less light. Darrel Tank (5PM drawing instructor)

  8. #47
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid and Honey Supers

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    When I see a proclaimed high concern about some micro possible danger while far greater dangers abound, it makes me question what the payoff really is.
    In the same boat!

    I believe I have heard that there are chemical sources not very well assessed where we do not suppose they are. Detergents that we use to wash the dishes, for example.

    Some balance is indispensable. JMO

  9. #48
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid and Honey Supers

    Rem
    Last edited by crofter; 02-13-2017 at 10:29 AM.
    Frank

  10. #49
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    Manning, SC
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid and Honey Supers

    Somebody please close this thread!
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!

  11. #50
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    Aug 2016
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid and Honey Supers

    Will it be fair to summarize this thread this way:
    Using OAV and OAD the amount of oxalic acid in the honey will be very low and less damaging to human health as the presence of other unwanted ingredients in the honey brought by bees from several external sources?

  12. #51
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid and Honey Supers

    Artur, I think that some will disagree with your proposed summary of the thread because some will not agree that the amount of OA is damaging to human health. I think most would agree that under normal circumstances a good beekeeper can minimize the amount of "unwanted ingredients" in the honey so that its consumption is safe. I too am a "naturalist" and want to have pure, clean honey for my use. However, realistically this means that although I will do all that I can to minimize unwanted ingredients, I will not be able to eliminate them. You have no idea what is in the honey you buy at the store but you will at least have an idea of what is in yours.
    So, to get back to the mechanics of minimizing your exposure to OA: You are in a pretty temperate climate and you can easily run 2 deeps of brood boxes. Why not add some mediums as your honey supers and not do the OAD or OAV on them? As others have pointed out, the bees move honey around so the honey supers would not be 100% protected from OA, but it minimizes it. At least this way you will not be directly adding OA to the honey supers.
    J

  13. #52
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid and Honey Supers

    I'm in my sixth decade of eating on this planet.
    Spinach is a salad is one fo my favorites -- it's high in oxalic acid content, though.

    I enjoy a good cole slaw as well.. it, too is high in oxalic acid.

    Peanut butter, pecan pie, beets and ...chocolate all contain oxalic acid, and in forms the human body absorbs.

    Now, having eaten a lot of this stuff ever since I was a little boy in the '60's I have no discernable health problems.
    When I get a physical, the blood tests are always normal, and no indications of any disease.

    Now my sixth decade of eating foods containing oxalic acid, I believe that I speak authoritatively when I say,
    incidental ingestion of oxalic acid in foods does no harm, and judging from what the Beautiful One tells me, are apparently no bad for one's looks, either.

    Now, I think I'll go make a peanut butter and honey sandwich for my grandson... oxalic acid and all.

  14. #53
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid and Honey Supers

    The question here is not if it is safe to eat spinach or beets. While they say that, on the one hand, it is safe to intake oxalic acid in the amounts naturally occurring in plant food and that normal body metabolism makes oxalic acid too, and, on the other hand, that after a single OAV (and OAD?) no significant raise in the OA levels is seen in the honey (capped or not capped?), the question still is: What about multiple treatments with OAV that are necessary when capped brood is present? And not in the winter but during a nectar flow? Would the honey still be edible after four, or five, or fifteen treatments: OA crystals may not penetrate the cappings during OAV, but might dissolve in uncapped nectar?

  15. #54
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid and Honey Supers

    baby bee
    If they did a test for three years in spain and after multiple treatments could see no raise in the level of olixic then it made no differrence doing multiple treatments.

    You know you are adding something extra but it does not add up to extra from what the bees normally make.

    The only thing that could be said is that you just don't believe the studie, cause if you do believe it, then it is just honey like the bees normally make and so there is no contamination.

    So in the end if you don't do the study yourself, then you only have an ideal that makes common sense to you or you relie that the people doing the study and come to the conclution that it does not contaminate the honey.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  16. #55
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid and Honey Supers

    If they did a test for three years in spain and after multiple treatments could see no raise in the level of olixic then it made no differrence doing multiple treatments.
    Is there a reference to this study in this thread? Would be interesting to know the amounts of OA, the seasons when the study was done, the way OA was delievered, how multiple were treatments.

    Some people here seem to be sure that OAV deposits unhealthy amounts of OA into the honey, hence removing of supers and blocking with political signs. How do they know it?

    I know that one of the federal agencies requires that the supers be removed during the OA treatment and the vaporizers instructions say something like that too. Have they done any tests and what have they shown?

  17. #56
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid and Honey Supers

    Baby bee
    It was swiss and not spain, My mistake. Post number 20 of this thread gives you enough info to search more.

    I believe also that that is was mentioned in this thread somewhere that the federal lableing might be more of a broiler plate type language then based on actual testing and a chart from the American bee journal shows that treating with the supers on is ok (though technically illegal due to the label).

    Of course useing it at all, like lots did for decades, was illegal till it was put through the prossess even though in the end it turned out the gov agreed it was ok to use.

    You have to make your own mind up on what creedence to put to all this.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  18. #57
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    Mar 2017
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    Warriors Mark, PA
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    Default

    I know this is a old post. But I was wondering how long after doing a vaporizer of o/a can I put the supers back on?

  19. #58
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    Atlanta, GA, USA
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid and Honey Supers

    15 minutes
    It is what it is!

  20. #59
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid and Honey Supers

    When I've inspected colonies after OAV treatments the bees usually have most of the "visible" crystals scrubbed off of the comb within 48 hours. No science here, just an observation.
    To everything there is a season....

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