Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up - Page 3
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 72
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,901

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    >So you are willing to purchase package bees in the spring and introduce them into your apiary in order to save two weeks in order to expedite queen rearing?

    I'd be willing to wait, but I want to do some queen rearing at camp. I used to do the camp later so I wouldn't need to have the bees, but then one year everything ran early and they all swarmed before camp. I can't do much queen rearing with a bunch of hives with virgin queens and no brood or eggs. I need a sure thing in order to cover queen rearing at bee camp. Also, it's nice to cover installing some packages so they can see that done.

    >Wouldn't it be more advisable to just wait the two weeks until your bees are built up accordingly instead of bringing in bulk bees (and more mites).

    You think mites are a problem. I don't find them to be a problem.

    > If your bees aren't sufficiently populated I would think that you wouldn't want to raise queens at that time anyways, and better off to wait for strong colony populations with mature drones with viable sperm. Just a thought.

    I have really two issues, but the big one is camp. The other one is that no one wants to buy queens in August, they want to buy them in April. April, of course, won't happen, but I try to at least have some by the end of June.

    >He didn't specifically in this case but he has in the past saying that he hasn't been able to find the tf suppliers he needed.

    These were treatment free bees. Unfortunately not northern bees as they wouldn't be far enough along that early.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    KC, MO, USA
    Posts
    4,646

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    Quote Originally Posted by Himmel-Hund View Post
    Since he is a human too even Tom Seeley may be in error - at least from time to time.
    +1

    T Seeley took treated bees and stopped treating; in the end they all died. He prevented swarms in the "LH" group by removing queen cells when they went queenless he blamed mites. When a few of "SH" group died the first winter he promptly replace them and did no count as a loss. Look at his notes attached to his study. And this is the same study all the new studies are citing his work.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4788434/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art....0150362.t001/

    These experiments have been going on since day one when mites were introduced. Ever time a novice beekeeper does not treat they loses their only hive, it's mites and it happen every time. How are the results different when a university does the same thing? All of a sudden spacing hives 10m - 100m works?

    It also does not coincide with T Seeley's genetic bottle neck theory, how can we have a genetic bottle neck with the Arnot Forest bees, if spacing prevent mites. He has stated many times hives are spaced the same before mites as they are now, a few per square mile. That's a lot more than 100m.

    It's not the spacing it's the bees!!!

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
    Posts
    1,222

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    MB : "You think mites are a problem. I don't find them to be a problem"

    Its always interesting to get feedback from different beekeepers about how they manage their apiaries. Personally I do find mites to be a problem; and if my average colony losses were 35% each year I would find it to be a much bigger problem. That's part of the reason I initially asked about your colony numbers and overwintering success. I know plenty of TF beekeepers (especially in my area) and its again always interesting to hear them talk about their TF success. Les Crowder kept bees here for a long time and I remember being at a meeting at my house one evening where he said he lost almost all his hives that winter; around 200 TB hives.

    Kefus spoke here a couple of years ago and apparently he has managed to breed in genetics allowing him to maintain his colony numbers (and not treat) because he now sees no mites in his bees. I suspect that Mike Bush doesn't share that same success because his genetic line is not as capable dealing with mites. I don't think that Kefus loses 35% of his colonies does he Wolfe?
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
    Posts
    1,913

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    you have to look at it as a whole...
    france's losses are like 9.63%
    In the last 9 years the advrage loss for treating keepers in the US has been 33.7%, same time frame the NE advrage for a treating keeper is 45.4, last year it was 58.3%
    Michael Bush is doing very well
    as for TF in your area in NM last 9 years treatrers lost an avargre of 37.3% and the TF keepers lost 32.9%.... It would seem TF is quite successful in NM

  6. #45

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    Quote Originally Posted by Riskybizz View Post
    Personally I do find mites to be a problem; and if my average colony losses were 35% each year I would find it to be a much bigger problem. That's part of the reason I initially asked about your colony numbers and overwintering success.
    Mites are a big problem here because there is no feral survivor stock around and the bees are weak from treating for many years. No selections done.

    So treated beekeepers average losses are 15-60%, depending on the climate and if treatments work.

    I would be very happy if my losses tf would be on a 30-35% level some time in future. In a natural setting insects often have very high losses this changes from year to year.

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,901

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    >and if my average colony losses were 35% each year

    My average colony losses are NOT 35% each year. They were last winter. According to BIP the average losses last year for Nebraska were 56.72%. It was a strange and apparently hard winter for the bees.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
    Posts
    1,222

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    MSL > "as for TF in your area in NM last 9 years treatrers lost an avargre of 37.3% and the TF keepers lost 32.9%.... It would seem TF is quite successful in NM"

    would you mind sharing with me your source for statistical data as I would be interested in reviewing that.
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
    Posts
    1,913

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    The US numbers come from here
    https://bip2.beeinformed.org/survey/

    the french number was off.. I flipped the seasonal loss with the winter loss number by mistake
    https://ec.europa.eu/food/animals/li...n_mortality_en


    as you can see the state of losses is very different else were then it is in the US
    Last edited by msl; 12-28-2017 at 07:31 PM.

  10. #49
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    3,061

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    A couple of thoughts, First We actually know for a fact, than mites reproduce better when infected with DWV so for that reason alone they could be worse in close proximity.
    We also know that closer hives would tend to get robbed out more with Dying hives having better luck at transferring mites at closer ranges.

    I see common's on TF success mentioned. IMO here is the real problem, the idea of success is completely different. Some of us Want to make a living, and 40/50% losses mean we cant quit the day job. (some have complained they dont have enough to sell queens time because of the job) Others just do not accept that.

    Charles
    500-1000 hives mostly honey

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
    Posts
    4,035

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    GM.....
    Some of us Want to make a living, and 40/50% losses mean we cant quit the day job.
    But some treatment free do not lose 40/50% and some treaters do. I do agree that if a person lost 40/50% that it could be harder. A lot of poeple throw out things like this to make a point that this is what you get if you go a certain route but all it is is a statement when it could be a fact for one (treater or nontreater) but not another.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  12. #51
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    3,061

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    point is simple, there are TF people who accept high losses, don't prevent swarming, and could care less about honey. The number of really TF pros is so tiny as to be non existent. My point was simple, you have to decide if those standards can fit your operation, nothing more. What you do with your hives is your business.
    500-1000 hives mostly honey

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
    Posts
    4,035

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    GM....
    I do agree with most of your last statement.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  14. #53
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
    Posts
    1,913

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    We actually know for a fact, than mites reproduce better when infected with DWV
    I have never hurd this, do you have a link to a study?

  15. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Somerset, NJ
    Posts
    339

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    If you query this data you will see that treated bees generally have a higher survival rate. However, you need to take these statistics with a grain of salt since this is "self reported" data.

  16. #55
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Huntersville, NC, USA
    Posts
    258

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    I see it as a reasonable hypothesis to be studied. All creatures have a natural boundary in which they will travel effectively.

  17. #56
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    3,061

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    The latest one I read is a German study, Danke comes to mind but not positive. the reproductive rate rises about 6% if i recall, as well as rising again when multiple fondress mites inhabit a cell.(up to 7 per cell) Google Scholar.... lots of research on this topic.
    500-1000 hives mostly honey

  18. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
    Posts
    4,035

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    Gm
    as well as rising again when multiple fondress mites inhabit a cell.(up to 7 per cell) Google Scholar.
    I may not know what you mean.
    This quote seems to say differrent then what you are indicating.
    When more than one mite invade a single brood cell, the per capita fecundity decreases, as the number of mother mites per cell increases. Mites invading brood cells in older combs also have fewer offspring. This led scientists to speculate that mites themselves might have a chemical to inhibit each other’s reproduction (a pheromone). A chemical, (Z)-8-heptadecene, was identified. In the laboratory, it caused a 30% reduction in mite fecundity. When tested in the colony, the average number of offspring was 3.48 in cells treated with (Z)-8-heptadecene, but 3.96 in control cells. This difference was small, but statistically, highly significant (P < 0.01). The effective fecundity (number of potentially mated daughters) was 0.94 in treated cells, and 1.31 in control cells; and this level of difference should have a rather large impact on population growth.
    I got this quote from here.
    http://articles.extension.org/pages/...uctive-biology

    I did see that the mite can start up to 7 (baby mites) but that they are not viable because of the time of uncapping and so the real rate in worker brood is about 1.6 and in drone brood due to longer being capped it is like 2.4 or so that actually live.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  19. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Catskills, Delaware Cty, New York, USA
    Posts
    1,595

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    I have never hurd this, do you have a link to a study?
    I believe it is in the Bee-l archives.
    Proverbs 16:24

  20. #59
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
    Posts
    1,913

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up


  21. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
    Posts
    4,035

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    Msl
    Good find.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •