Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    How many of us can put these findings into use? I for one will start spacing all my hives 100 meters apart tomorrow.

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  3. #22

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    I spaced my hives 3-5 m apart and used robber screens the whole year long and I claim this reduced drifting + - 40%, as I saw because I have grey and yellow bees at my bee yard.
    A big difference to last year. Let´s see if this means a change in tf survivability.

    And I have placed a single, not resistant colony in my garden, surrounded by neighbor treated hives, 300m away. Robber screen on. I´m curious if these will survive winter. Normally they would be dead now without treatment, but I hear them.

    To move brood or honey combs to sustain weak colonies will wreck this space management though.

  4. #23
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    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    I actually have enough room that I could spread my hives apart a lot, but then I would spend all my energy walking from hive to hive especially when stealing resources from one hive or mulltiple hives for things like swarm boxes etc. I wouldn't have the energy.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  5. #24
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    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    "I'm not beeless. Last time I was beeless was 2001. "..

    Mike just wondering how your bee yards are doing these days. Do you mind sharing your current untreated colony numbers and overwintering rates the last couple of seasons. Are you still buying lots of package bees to replace dead outs each spring? I really have no idea how treatment free beekeepers are keeping numbers up these days. Thanks
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  6. #25
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    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    The charts in the study above are all over the place, and flip back a forth, almost doubling the mite count in two weeks for some groups. At any give time during the study there is either a 0M or 10M with similar or better results than the 100M group. I did not see a trend that's going to "Save the Bees". But instead it depends on which week of the year I am going to keep bees at 0M, 10M or 100M apart. That's going to be a lot of moving hives every other week to maximized the best possibly mite loss to the landscape.

    And in the end all mites levels dropped in Nov. To survivable limits? That's the question. Was the difference in each group enough to show a difference rate in survivability? And to what degree. Are we to move our hives 100M apart for 2% increase in survival?
    Last edited by FlowerPlanter; 12-08-2017 at 09:10 AM.

  7. #26
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    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    Siwolke said:”Multiplying was done by swarming, no brood combs were shifted. There was no comb hygiene, honey was taken out of brood combs too. ” Do you mean removing old black comb from hives? Deb
    Proverbs 16:24

  8. #27

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloverdale View Post
    Siwolke said:”Multiplying was done by swarming, no brood combs were shifted. There was no comb hygiene, honey was taken out of brood combs too. ” Do you mean removing old black comb from hives? Deb
    It was the skep beekeeping time.

    https://av.tib.eu/media/14378

    You can´t shift frames with a skep. Some hives were emptied of bees, making packages, combining weak colonies...the brood left behind was killed and all combs harvested, honey and brood combs. The wax was melted and cleaned.
    It was all natural comb and the colonies built new.
    There was no chemicals used inside the hives.

    In europe comb hygiene was started when beekeepers began to use chemicals against mites. Before, even with magazine beekeeping, honey out of brood combs was harvested.
    Last edited by 1102009; 12-09-2017 at 12:18 PM. Reason: spelling

  9. #28
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    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    Quote Originally Posted by Riskybizz View Post
    "I'm not beeless. Last time I was beeless was 2001. "..

    Mike just wondering how your bee yards are doing these days. Do you mind sharing your current untreated colony numbers and overwintering rates the last couple of seasons. Are you still buying lots of package bees to replace dead outs each spring? I really have no idea how treatment free beekeepers are keeping numbers up these days. Thanks
    That would be interesting to know about your losses Mike. I stopped treating 3 years ago, not that I’m anti-treatment but I just don’t have the time nor the energy. My losses are a little higher, but not as bad as I thought. Capturing swarms is the way I replace dead outs. I usually lure 2 or 3 swarms from Tankbees every year but his bees are dwindling fast! I get several packages a year but they never seem to do as well as swarms.
    My opinions are based on a decade of beekeeping, book learning and watching YouTube videos.

  10. #29
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    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    duplicate, sorry
    My opinions are based on a decade of beekeeping, book learning and watching YouTube videos.

  11. #30
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    Default

    > Capturing swarms is the way I replace dead outs. I usually lure 2 or 3 swarms from Tankbees every year but his bees are dwindling fast!
    Charlie! All of us here on Beesource would love to learn your secret on how you know exactly whose swarms you are catching. A few years ago you "knew" that you had caught the first swarm of the year and that it had come from my hives. Now you "know" you are catching Tanks' swarm. Please tell us how to have the same brilliant insight that you do.
    All of my opinions and suggestions are based on my five decades of actual beekeeping,
    not so much on book learning, watching YouTube videos nor reading internet sites.

  12. #31
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    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    > Capturing swarms is the way I replace dead outs. I usually lure 2 or 3 swarms from Tankbees every year but his bees are dwindling fast!
    Charlie! All of us here on Beesource would love to learn your secret on how you know exactly whose swarms you are catching. A few years ago you "knew" that you had caught the first swarm of the year and that it had come from my hives. Now you "know" you are catching Tanks' swarm. Please tell us how to have the same brilliant insight that you do.
    I’ll thank you to remember that I’m the Bay Area 2016 bait hive champion capturing one of YOUR swarms. I base it on circumstantial evidence. All the bits and pieces of information carefully assembled to lead a reasonable (or unreasonable) beekeeper to believe that more likely than not, that’s an Oliver Frank swarm!!!

    17662BD1-7EFC-478A-801F-05B463DC4076.jpg

    Now, as for Tanksbees, his bee yard is several blocks from mine in Hillsdale. Case closed!

    D4519C20-F52A-4AAE-ADAA-735B35577C24.jpg

    This is the coveted tree I place my bait hives to catch Tankbees bees every year.
    Last edited by Charlie B; 12-11-2017 at 11:31 AM.
    My opinions are based on a decade of beekeeping, book learning and watching YouTube videos.

  13. #32
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    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    >Mike just wondering how your bee yards are doing these days. Do you mind sharing your current untreated colony numbers and overwintering rates the last couple of seasons. Are you still buying lots of package bees to replace dead outs each spring? I really have no idea how treatment free beekeepers are keeping numbers up these days.

    I suspect that you have no idea how treatment free beekeepers keep their numbers up because you have preconceived notions about treatment free beekeeping. You assume more losses than when you treat. I have not found that to be true. My biggest issues have nothing to do with not treating, they have to do with time to keep up with beekeeping and enough bees early enough to start queen rearing early. I kept up better this year than I have in some time. My current counts: 14 full size colonies (four 8 frame medium boxes), 11 small colonies (three 8 frame medium boxes), 19 nucs (two eight frame medium boxes or less). At the peak of queen rearing I had over 100 two frame mating nucs which have since been combined with other colonies for winter.

    >That would be interesting to know about your losses Mike. I stopped treating 3 years ago, not that I’m anti-treatment but I just don’t have the time nor the energy. My losses are a little higher, but not as bad as I thought. Capturing swarms is the way I replace dead outs. I usually lure 2 or 3 swarms from Tankbees every year but his bees are dwindling fast! I get several packages a year but they never seem to do as well as swarms.

    I much prefer swarms as well and I catch some. I do have to buy a few packages early in the spring to populate early mating nucs, so I can start queen rearing early enough to do it at my bee camp. Otherwise I would have to wait another two weeks to have enough bees for queen rearing. Losses vary from winter to winter. Typically my losses are the same or less than the rest of Nebraska for a given winter. Looks like they are listing 72.1% losses in Nebraska last winter on BIP. I had more like 35% last winter which is about half the average losses. I had thought it was a mild winter so losses would be low, but it seems like there were a lot of warm flying days and nothing blooming so losses were high.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  14. #33
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    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    >"Otherwise I would have to wait another two weeks to have enough bees for queen rearing..."

    So you are willing to purchase package bees in the spring and introduce them into your apiary in order to save two weeks in order to expedite queen rearing? Wouldn't it be more advisable to just wait the two weeks until your bees are built up accordingly instead of bringing in bulk bees (and more mites). If your bees aren't sufficiently populated I would think that you wouldn't want to raise queens at that time anyways, and better off to wait for strong colony populations with mature drones with viable sperm. Just a thought.
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  15. #34
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    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    riskybizz
    If your bees aren't sufficiently populated I would think that you wouldn't want to raise queens at that time anyways, and better off to wait for strong colony populations with mature drones with viable sperm. Just a thought.
    Just looking at what was writen, I think you might be missing the point. Bee progress is probly Climate regulated but bee camp is proby people related. So if you have a bee camp that fits before the real work of beekeeping begins, the priority may be to have the tools nessasary to teach before the beekeeping gets in the way. It probly works better for the campers and the teachers. It would make perfect sense to me that it would be handled just like mikes answer says he does it.

    Just what I seem to get from his answer and maby not what he was meaning.

    So I guess it depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  16. #35
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    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    Kudos to Mr. Bush for being upfront about his numbers and reasons for bringing in (I presume) treated package bees.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  17. #36
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    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    Randy Oliver has published an updated version on his website called Getting Serious About Breeding and this is quoted” I recently published the article “Bee Breeding for Dummies” [2], and have now posted a pictorial version to my website [3], hoping to encourage our queen producers to shift the genetics of our bees towards mite resistance. I’m not a proponent of the “Bond Method”–which involves unnecessarily allowing colonies to die–but rather of a “smarter” process based simply upon repeatedly selecting those colonies with the lowest rates of mite buildup [4].

    The question, of course, is how realistic would it be for a queen producer to actually engage in such a breeding program? To answer that question, we should look at four factors that determine whether a program has a chance of being successful at breeding for a certain trait (in this case, varroa resistance) over a reasonable amount of time:
    1: There must exist a goodly degree of variability in the desired trait in the breeding population (i.e., a wide hive-to-hive variability in the rates of mite buildup),
    2: That the desired trait is heritable (that mite resistance be passed to the next generation),
    3: That the breeder can identify individuals exhibiting that trait (what this article is about), and
    4: That the breeder can apply a strong amount of selective pressure to the breeding population (how strongly you can shift the genetics of your breeding population by eliminating susceptible bees and promoting resistant lines).
    He discusses these points and I highly recommend reading this.
    Proverbs 16:24

  18. #37
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    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    "Just looking at what was writen, I think you might be missing the point"..

    No I don't think I'm missing the point. What was said was "I do have to buy a few packages early in the spring to populate early mating nucs, so I can start queen rearing early enough to do it at my bee camp". Maybe your the one not understanding..?
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  19. #38
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    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    Riskybizz
    And then you ask wouldn't it be better to wait. It wouldn't be better to wait if you wanted to have bee classes before that time. Maby you understood perfectly but would just run your classes later if you were having a bee camp of your own. I could see every one that went to be camp wanting to go back to thier own bees in time to impliment what they had learned during prime time but it doesn't hurt if you would run your camp differrent if people still came. You probly weren't missing the point of what I thought (again not speaking for michael but just reading what he wrote) he ment but think he should wait.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  20. #39

    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Kudos to Mr. Bush for being upfront about his numbers and reasons for bringing in (I presume) treated package bees.
    Did he ever said he used treated bees? There are a number of tf bee packages available in the US.
    And if he does, why not?
    Maybe it makes his bee stock even more resistant. Kefuss imports mites too to trigger the stock to more defense.
    As I see it he only has problems with overwintering when it´s getting too warm, probably they use too much stores. No problem with mites.

  21. #40
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    Default Re: Very wide spacing of hives (100m) reduces mite build up

    Quote Originally Posted by SiWolKe View Post
    Did he ever said he used treated bees?
    He didn't specifically in this case but he has in the past saying that he hasn't been able to find the tf suppliers he needed.

    .
    Last edited by Rader Sidetrack; 12-26-2017 at 09:16 PM. Reason: fix quote code syntax
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

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