Palmer queen lines make up and history - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Feb 2015
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    Wayne, WV, USA
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    233

    Default Re: Palmer queen lines make up and history

    Mike, for those of us with say, 20 colonies who want to start raising our own stock, where should we start?

    I have 17 colonies with stock from Gardner's, Wilbanks, Heitkams, Strachans, and a couple of local mutts. They were made up as nucs last spring, and I'd like to put 10 or 12 into honey production, then make nucs from the remaining 5 or so left over.
    "The amazing thing about the honey bee is not that she works, but that she works for others." St. John Chrysostom

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  3. #22
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    Dec 2010
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    Ojai, California
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    Default Re: Palmer queen lines make up and history

    I'm not Mike, but start by acquiring good stock and building a lot of equipment to increase that apiary of yours. You have to have the good traits present, and the hives and drawn combs to get the numbers.

    Michael has done wonders with good basic beekeeping honed to superb skills, solid queen rearing practices, wise selection, seeking the best advice in the business, getting good employees and treating them right, open mating, and years of consistent hard work. Like he says, no secrets (except, perhaps, for the part I bold-face typed).

    Another thing you may notice about him - he is always learning something.

    Oh, yeah, remember to feed your bees the good stuff at the right time of year. Have at it Mike

  4. #23
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    Jul 2015
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    Baltimore, Maryland
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    335

    Default Re: Palmer queen lines make up and history

    Kilo, nice straight forward advice there.

    Quote Originally Posted by kilocharlie View Post
    feed your bees the good stuff
    Hope this doesn't open a hornets nest, but what do you mean by "the good stuff"
    Last edited by razoo; 01-19-2017 at 06:35 AM.

  5. #24
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    Dec 2006
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    St. Albans, Vermont
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    8,225

    Default Re: Palmer queen lines make up and history

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaW View Post
    Mike, for those of us with say, 20 colonies who want to start raising our own stock, where should we start?
    With what you have. Keep records that matter. Learn how to raise quality queen cells. Get them mated in nucs that you can evaluate and use the following season. Understand that all this takes time but the benefits of the queens you raise under ideal conditions show up quickly, because it really is about Nature AND Nurture. Best advice I can give you as you start your program, and the same as I've given others...

    Patience Grashopper

  6. #25
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    Nov 2014
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    Portugal
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    Default Re: Palmer queen lines make up and history

    Michael Palmer what have you done about the control of the drones to ensure the remaining 50% of genetics?

  7. #26
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    Dec 2006
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    St. Albans, Vermont
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    Default Re: Palmer queen lines make up and history

    My mating yard is surrounded by my apiaries. I used to be isolated, but now everyone wants a couple hives in their backyard. I'd give them queens if I knew they were there. Hard to keep up with it.

  8. #27
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    Nov 2014
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    Portugal
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    Default Re: Palmer queen lines make up and history

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    Hard to keep up with it.
    Yes, it will not always be easy. Thank you Michael.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    DFW area, TX, USA
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    1,948

    Thumbs Up Re: Palmer queen lines make up and history

    To Michael Palmer,

    Thanks for sharing your experience in the most mundane discussions here. And thanks for answering the same questions again and again. You have a gift for succinct and pointed expression that I/we value. I enjoy your youtube videos too, they probably teach us the most because we can see what you are doing. :-)

    US Air Force Instructor Pilots are selected for their ability to impart instruction (yes they have to do the job well too). I'm sure they would conclude you have that ability. I value the way you communicate about your hard earned skills/knowledge.

    Your practical focus is what the rest of us need. Again, thank you.

    Regards,

    Lee_Burough
    ...We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are...

  10. #29
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    Aug 2015
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    Ephraim, Utah, USA
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    151

    Default Re: Palmer queen lines make up and history

    Well Stated!!

  11. #30
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    Feb 2015
    Location
    Wayne, WV, USA
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    233

    Default Re: Palmer queen lines make up and history

    Thank you so much, Mike. And Kilo.

    Mike, your sustainable apiary presentation literally saved our beekeeping this year. I started with 3 purchased nucs two years ago and split off them, then made splits off splits with mated queens last spring and went into winter with 17 colonies. One of our beekeepers was TF and lost 11 of 14. Bummer, but now we have backups, and he's done with TF. (Thankfully) I was able to raise two batches of queens using the nucs to supply the starter/finisher; some queens were well-mated, others were not. It was and is, for our location, a real roll-of-the-dice.

    We are in a fairly isolated spot, without many beeks around; it's a blessing and a curse. The blessing comes in mating; but the curse comes in mating, too. Any advice on drone production?
    "The amazing thing about the honey bee is not that she works, but that she works for others." St. John Chrysostom

  12. #31
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    Jan 2013
    Location
    Crown Point, NY, USA
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    674

    Default Re: Palmer queen lines make up and history

    MP when might we see the results of that paper to be published? I'd be interested in seeing it.

  13. #32
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    Dec 2006
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    St. Albans, Vermont
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    Default Re: Palmer queen lines make up and history

    You and me both

  14. #33
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    Default Re: Palmer queen lines make up and history

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaW View Post
    Any advice on drone production?
    Saturate your area with production colonies that have your queens. Don't be afraid of buying in stock from a reputable breeder to add to your mix.

  15. #34
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    Jan 2013
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    Crown Point, NY, USA
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    Default

    Hey MP did that paper ever get published? Figured I'd check back after a bit of time. How did your bees winter so far?

  16. #35
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    Dec 2006
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    Default Re: Palmer queen lines make up and history

    Yes, I guess it did. Not sure I really understand where it went and what it proved. I am hesitant to discuss it. I am really confused by what I was told as the study progressed. First year I was told that my stock was the only viable in October. Then, I was at a Penn State presentation in Burlington that showed one of the four that raced to the top of the graph. I was led to believe they were my stock. Then nothing was published. Then the leader retired. Then they came out with a lame conclusion that the only important thing in wintering was colony weight, and three is no difference between the northern raised stocks and the southern raised stocks. Well that's a bunch of poppycock. And I see one of the northern stocks was from WV. But originally, the other northern stock was from WM in PA. When was the WV stock substituted for the PA stock.WV northern stock?? Anyway, I don't know what else to say without calling out the researchers to explain their "study"...something I will never do. Anyone who has raised stock and actually run a breeding program, and selected stock for excellent wintering, knows the difference.

  17. #36
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    Mar 2012
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    Catskills, Delaware Cty, New York, USA
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    Default Re: Palmer queen lines make up and history

    [QUOTE][Never a dip in production.......can't supercede at the correct time, or even successfully../QUOTE]

    Mike what do you mean by this? Deb
    Proverbs 16:24

  18. #37
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    Dec 2006
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    St. Albans, Vermont
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    Default Re: Palmer queen lines make up and history

    [QUOTE=Cloverdale;1789821]
    [Never a dip in production.......can't supercede at the correct time, or even successfully../QUOTE]

    Mike what do you mean by this? Deb
    When a colony swarms, there is a dip in honey production for that year. And, if a colony waits to supercede until the queen is failing, there will be a dip in honey production that year. Some colonies go on and on, year after year. They requeen themselves when they feel necessary, and never a drop in honey production. I had one...original colony was established in 2001. In 2015 I took their queen as a breeder. Think of it. 14 years and the best producer in its apiary every year.

  19. #38
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    Sep 2018
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    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
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    1,157

    Default Re: Palmer queen lines make up and history

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    Yes, I guess it did. Not sure I really understand where it went and what it proved. I am hesitant to discuss it. I am really confused by what I was told as the study progressed. First year I was told that my stock was the only viable in October. Then, I was at a Penn State presentation in Burlington that showed one of the four that raced to the top of the graph. I was led to believe they were my stock. Then nothing was published. Then the leader retired. Then they came out with a lame conclusion that the only important thing in wintering was colony weight, and three is no difference between the northern raised stocks and the southern raised stocks. Well that's a bunch of poppycock. And I see one of the northern stocks was from WV. But originally, the other northern stock was from WM in PA. When was the WV stock substituted for the PA stock.WV northern stock?? Anyway, I don't know what else to say without calling out the researchers to explain their "study"...something I will never do. Anyone who has raised stock and actually run a breeding program, and selected stock for excellent wintering, knows the difference.
    Michael,

    The truth matters
    "Anyway, I don't know what else to say without calling out the researchers to explain their "study"...something I will never do"
    Odd seems a shift in the study.
    Some of us have more faith in reality than "studies and papers"
    Hence some aprension in taking all studies as gospel.

    Thanks for the reply, maybe next time the "data" will get published.
    Carry on

    GG

  20. #39
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    Feb 2012
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    West Bath, Maine, United States
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    Default Re: Palmer queen lines make up and history

    Not going near the North /South question. (A little surprised myself, must be getting old)

    Have some of MPs queens, daughters of two queenlines. A couple of individuals are snappy, a daughter of that line is not for a rookie. But **** I'm keeping her. Will not bother you if you don't bother them. Open the top too quickly and you are on your own. Will not chase you.
    The other does not brood up as fast, produces as well. Like several of those queens.
    As I said to Jennifer Lund, after doing this for nine years I now know what a good bee looks like. MP has run stationary hives for a long time, bred for that. North or South I don't know, his result for my climate, I do.
    It is hard to design a safety net that some will not use as a hammock.

  21. #40
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    Jun 2012
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    Suffolk Co, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Palmer queen lines make up and history

    MPalmer: I'd guess if you don't get where the study went or what it proved (or the methodology) others will likely feel the same way when they read it.
    What is the name of the study and author?

    Who is WM in PA? The WV queens were from the queen breeder co-op there?

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