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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    ****, hope it doesn't effect it much, tasted ok. Now to see what some proper aging does for it

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    Quote Originally Posted by ducatidom View Post
    ****, hope it doesn't effect it much, tasted ok. Now to see what some proper aging does for it
    If it tasted ok then you should be fine! You would know right away if DAP ruined it because the taste of it is strong and kicks you in the nuts!

  4. #23
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoRaptor View Post
    I would not have added any nutrient! Nutrient additions late in the ferment can leave off flavors especially DAP!
    Considering That DAP (Di-Ammonium Phosphate) is not a nutrient I would not suggest using it either, Once the ferment stops. DAP helps the yeast multiply and can at times boost a slow ferment by increasing productive yeast when infusing oxygen is not practical. Under these circumstances only a small amount should be used. If an excessive amount is used it can facilitate the development of Hydrogen sulfide, which defiantly can be considered an off flavor, as well as smell like rotten eggs!

    But I doubt you would notice it in a few days.

  5. #24
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenbears View Post
    ...it can facilitate the development of Hydrogen sulfide, which defiantly can be considered an off flavor, as well as smell like rotten eggs!
    And it goes BOOM! if you collect enough in an enclosed area and light a cigarette...don't ask.
    If you want to be successful, study successful people and do what they do.
    Zone 4a/b

  6. #25
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    Bought it labeled as "Yeast Nutrient", not sure if it is DAP. Didn't think to look at the specific ingredients, but thanks to the advice here I know to be careful with the timing of additions in the future.

    Current batch is off-gassing, but doesn't seem to be clearing much yet. I have racked twice so far, now hoping to start seeing it clear up on its own

  7. #26
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    Quote Originally Posted by ducatidom View Post
    Bought it labeled as "Yeast Nutrient", not sure if it is DAP. Didn't think to look at the specific ingredients, but thanks to the advice here I know to be careful with the timing of additions in the future.

    Current batch is off-gassing, but doesn't seem to be clearing much yet. I have racked twice so far, now hoping to start seeing it clear up on its own
    Yeast Nutrient is a mixture of diammonium phosphate(DAP) and food-grade urea that nourishes yeast, ensuring that it remains healthy throughout fermentation. One teaspoon per gallon recommended for wine, mead, and cider. By the way Urea is food grade urine.....

  8. #27
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    [QUOTE=Tenbears;1506742]Considering That DAP (Di-Ammonium Phosphate) is not a nutrient [QUOTE]


  9. #28
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    It is not it is an ingredient in "Some" Yeast nutrients. DAP in and of itself does not nourish yeast. it stimulates multiplication of the yeast. Add Dap alone to a must in which the yeast is starving for nutrients and see what happens! Don't believe it? Ask Dr. Denard!
    We do not refer to sugar as a nutrient either, Although technically it is in the same way DAP (diammonium phosphateis) which yeast can break down to mine for Nitrogen. However, there are other compounds yeast can get Yeast assimilable nitrogen from making it the nutrient nit the DAP.
    Last edited by Tenbears; 02-04-2017 at 06:50 AM.

  10. #29
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenbears View Post
    It is not it is an ingredient in "Some" Yeast nutrients. DAP in and of itself does not nourish yeast. it stimulates multiplication of the yeast. Add Dap alone to a must in which the yeast is starving for nutrients and see what happens! Don't believe it? Ask Dr. Denard!
    We do not refer to sugar as a nutrient either, Although technically it is in the same way DAP (diammonium phosphateis) which yeast can break down to mine for Nitrogen. However, there are other compounds yeast can get Yeast assimilable nitrogen from making it the nutrient nit the DAP.
    Nutrients are ingredients that nourish! When you cook your own food you use ingredients that nourish the body ..... yes? The stimulation you refer to is nourishment because reproduction cannot take place without proper nourishment. And sugar is nourishment for our brains, you would die without it. Not to mention sugar, honey being a concentrated form is nourishment for your bees.
    Last edited by ColoradoRaptor; 02-05-2017 at 04:56 PM.

  11. #30
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoRaptor View Post
    Nutrients are ingredients that nourish! When you cook your own food you use ingredients that nourish the body ..... yes? The stimulation you refer to is nourishment because reproduction cannot take place without proper nourishment. And sugar is nourishment for our brains, you would die without it. Not to mention sugar, honey being a concentrated form is nourishment for your bees.
    I thought we were talking about mead! So now you are saying that if one of your HIGH SG ferments stalls due to lack of nutrients, adding more sugar will help?

    And adding straight Diammoniun phosphate will also help?

  12. #31
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenbears View Post
    I thought we were talking about mead! So now you are saying that if one of your HIGH SG ferments stalls due to lack of nutrients, adding more sugar will help?
    LOL..... what I said just flew over the Cuckoo's nest didn't it.....
    Last edited by ColoradoRaptor; 02-07-2017 at 05:44 PM. Reason: typo

  13. #32
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoRaptor View Post
    LOL..... what I said just flew over the Cuckoo's nest didn't it.....
    Now you know How I have felt for weeks! Since my doctorate is insufficient education to understand your wisdom. Please explain how adding the "nutrients" sugar or DAP to a stuck ferment which has resulted from Lack of nutrients will help the ferment? Take all the time you like to search for an answer that you can in YOUR mind manipulate to sound as though you are right.

  14. #33
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenbears View Post
    Since my doctorate is insufficient education to understand your wisdom.
    A doctorate of what??? ...... look out schools in session

  15. #34
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    Pause for breath gentlemen. Mazers, and beekeepers, are people of quiet dignity and who welcome all views... let's continue to be a model for our community please.
    Bees, brews and fun
    in Lyons, CO

  16. #35
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    Again I ask. Please explain how adding the "nutrients" sugar or DAP to a stuck ferment which has resulted from Lack of nutrients will help the ferment?

  17. #36
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenbears View Post
    I thought we were talking about mead! So now you are saying that if one of your HIGH SG ferments stalls due to lack of nutrients, adding more sugar will help?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenbears View Post
    Again I ask. Please explain how adding the "nutrients" sugar or DAP to a stuck ferment which has resulted from Lack of nutrients will help the ferment?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenbears View Post
    Now you know How I have felt for weeks! Since my doctorate is insufficient education to understand your wisdom. Please explain how adding the "nutrients" sugar or DAP to a stuck ferment which has resulted from Lack of nutrients will help the ferment? Take all the time you like to search for an answer that you can in YOUR mind manipulate to sound as though you are right.
    1. I never said sugar or DAP would restart a stalled ferment, you came up with that all on your own! And I'm sure you will try to find something I said that can be construed as such.....

    2. The discussion I started was about whether or not DAP was a nutrient, which it IS!! Nutrients nourish and DAP is in several different brands of nutrient! Here is one definition: "Yeast assimilable nitrogen or YAN is the combination of Free Amino Nitrogen (FAN), ammonia (NH3) and ammonium (NH4+) that is available for the wine yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae to use during fermentation. Outside of the fermentable sugars glucose and fructose, nitrogen is the most important nutrient needed to carry out a successful fermentation that doesn't end prior to the intended point of dryness or sees the development of off-odors and related wine faults. To this extent winemakers will often supplement the available YAN resources with nitrogen additives such as diammonium phosphate (DAP)." Feel free to look it up with your library or google it and you will see the same.

    3. You are trying so hard to be right that you are looking foolish. So by all means keep going......
    Last edited by ColoradoRaptor; 02-09-2017 at 07:02 PM.

  18. #37
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoRaptor View Post
    1. I never said sugar or DAP would restart a stalled ferment, you came up with that all on your own! ......

    Yes, I did, I was asking you a related question! However in simple terms for you! ! Every mead makers knows that when a ferment becomes stuck (when the yeast become dormant before the fermentation has completed) as a result of of a lack of nutrition in most cases it will restart when yeast nutrients are added. Since you contend that DAP in and of itself And sugar are nutrients then the addition of either or both should and would restart the fermentation.




    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoRaptor View Post
    1. I never said sugar or DAP would restart a stalled ferment, you came up with that all on your own! And I'm sure you will try to find something I said that can be construed as such.....

    2. The discussion I started was about whether or not DAP was a nutrient, which it IS!! Nutrients nourish and DAP is in several different brands of nutrient! Here is one definition: "Yeast assimilable nitrogen or YAN is the combination of Free Amino Nitrogen (FAN), ammonia (NH3) and ammonium (NH4+) that is available for the wine yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae to use during fermentation. Outside of the fermentable sugars glucose and fructose, nitrogen is the most important nutrient needed to carry out a successful fermentation that doesn't end prior to the intended point of dryness or sees the development of off-odors and related wine faults. To this extent winemakers will often supplement the available YAN resources with nitrogen additives such as diammonium phosphate (DAP)." Feel free to look it up with your library or google it and you will see the same.

    3. You are trying so hard to be right that you are looking foolish. So by all means keep going......
    None of which you even had a clue about until I brought it up. Dap is no more a nutrient to yeast that air is to a person It creates a assimilatable fuel Same as O2 for humane.
    Funny how you are now saying the same things about Yan I did many posts ago.
    Just because some innocuous poster from who knows where refers to Nitrogen as a nutrient does not mean that it from a scientific standpoint it is. Most Humans refer to many things with common adjectives so the lay person such as yourself can understand.
    It is nice to see that you are now actually studding wine techniques and the psychological aspects involved in the chemistry involved in wine making. Rather that simply taking the advice of a Philosopher who has only been a self professed mead expert for 2 years.

    It is not a matter of trying to be right. It is a matter of preventing beginners from trying to do ferments by starting out with SG of 1.170+ and low ABV tolerance and then needing to be coached as to why their ferment will not start, or has stalled and they cannot restart it.



    For the fourth time I ask, since you proclaim Dap to be a nutrient, and sugar to be a nutrient. Please explain how adding the "nutrients" sugar or DAP to a stuck ferment which has resulted from Lack of nutrients will help the ferment? Because That was the basis for the origional contention!

    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoRaptor View Post
    My poor mead making and half baked ideology has received many good reviews from vintners, brewers, mazers and friends, one of which is a wine snob who is a distributor here in southern Colorado. You can say whatever you like about me or the advice I give but at least my advice can be referenced.
    The mazers cup is coming up in march. It is right there in Broomfield Co. How about this. I will enter a straight mead. You enter one of yours. Highest Medal tells the tail. Then everyone will know who the real mead makers are! Put up or shut up

    How bout one of your 21% ers

  19. #38
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    To late for entries, but you should know that..... if you were not so busy trying to talk down at me we could possibly be friends.... you are just like some wine snobs that I know..... full of yourself! Maybe next year we can enter our mead I'm more than willing to put up!

  20. #39
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    I've got it.

    How about you both send a sample to me and I will test it.

  21. #40
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    Default Re: Noob, first mead

    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoRaptor View Post
    To late for entries, but you should know that..... if you were not so busy trying to talk down at me we could possibly be friends.... you are just like some wine snobs that I know..... full of yourself! Maybe next year we can enter our mead I'm more than willing to put up!
    Well there are still 17 spots available. I know because I just entered seconds ago.

    But ya know what! I have thought this over and Maybe I could have handled it differently. Maybe if I had PMed you and explained that I was getting Emails on my personal email from people who were following your High SG recommendations and having a lot of trouble non starters and stuck ferments you would have made adjustments in how you presented the information. So beginners would understand that it was not a guaranteed method and required sacking techniques. Maybe you would have seen that my concerns were only for the countless beginners who follow the advice of those with experience on our humble site. And that we as those with experience need to take into account that we are discussing mead making with many who are complete beginners. rather than post it in open forum. For that I was wrong. and apologize.
    We will never know what could have been at this point. There has been too much water pass under the bridge. Maybe we can just go on from here and offer what we have to offer to the beesource community without the rhetoric,
    Last edited by Tenbears; 02-10-2017 at 05:12 PM. Reason: Reflection!

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