De-gassing?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 29

Thread: De-gassing?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Carthage, TX, USA
    Posts
    19

    Default De-gassing?

    I read about degassing but have a few questions.
    When is this done?
    Is it necessary?
    How is it done?
    What is the purpose?
    Thanks for your help.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Red Bud, IL, USA
    Posts
    1,807

    Default Re: De-gassing?

    I'm not sure this exactly addresses your question but ...... the byproducts of fermentation is CO2 and alcohol. The CO2 will convert to a gas and continue to build pressure if not vented, an airlock is the most popular way of venting while preventing oxidation of the mead. Failure to relieve pressure can cause the "stopper/cork" to be blown out with significant pressure or the container to split/explode. If you fail to maintain a CO2 barrier between the atmosphere and the mead, oxidation will occur and ruin the mead. Airlocks are normally added during the secondary fermentation process. Search for fermentation airlock or visit your local brewing supply store, they're a great source of information and would love to have your business.
    “The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place.” -George Bernard Shaw

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    KC, MO, USA
    Posts
    4,646

    Default Re: De-gassing?

    I think he means removing the gas. Such as by mixing vigorously while fermenting or with a vacuum pump after it's done.

    Maybe someone with more experience will chime in on the best time to do each and if it makes a difference.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Jordan, UT, USA
    Posts
    1,118

    Default Re: De-gassing?

    Degassing is done at the end of fermentation to remove the dissolved CO2 in order to obtain a dead-still wine/mead (no bubbles). Methods are to agitate (stir vigorously) or use a vac-pump to vacuum out the gas.
    If you want sparkling mead or wine, of course you won't do this.

    http://winemakersacademy.com/%EF%BB%...en-degas-wine/

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Canon City Colorado
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: De-gassing?

    Quote Originally Posted by JHill View Post
    I read about degassing but have a few questions.
    Depending on who you ask, you can end up with different answers.

    Quote Originally Posted by JHill View Post
    When is this done?
    For me it's done the first 3 to 5 days of primary fermentation. I do this because oxygen is important during initial fermentation, it promotes a fast and healthy fermentation as well as keeping the must from becoming overly acidic.

    Quote Originally Posted by JHill View Post
    Is it necessary?
    I would have to say no because some people don't do it at all and end up with good mead though it usually has to age longer.

    Quote Originally Posted by JHill View Post
    How is it done?
    You can do it with a spoon if you are using buckets but you will need a degassing tool if you are using carboys. There are several types of degassing tools but all are attached to a drill and can be purchased at your local brew supply.

    Quote Originally Posted by JHill View Post
    What is the purpose?
    I mentioned this above, it adds needed oxygen to the must which promoted a healthy fermentation and helps keep acidity from getting to high.

    Quote Originally Posted by JHill View Post
    Thanks for your help.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Carthage, TX, USA
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: De-gassing?

    Thanks Colorado

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Pepperell, MA.
    Posts
    6,102

    Default Re: De-gassing?

    I started a 3 gallon BOMM yesterday morning. About an hour ago I attached one of those stirring tools to an old battery drill and gave it a spin in the bucket. I had foam to the brim in about 20 seconds. Looking good!
    "My wife always wanted girls. Just not thousands and thousands of them......"

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Canon City Colorado
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: De-gassing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenseye View Post
    I started a 3 gallon BOMM yesterday morning. About an hour ago I attached one of those stirring tools to an old battery drill and gave it a spin in the bucket. I had foam to the brim in about 20 seconds. Looking good!
    LOL... yeah, you need to degas slowly at first otherwise you will have a CME "catastrophic mead explosion" ask me how I know.... let's just say I was cleaning mead up from everywhere ......

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    7,800

    Default Re: De-gassing?

    The C02 building up in the must is in itself antimicrobial and to an extent slows down fermentation. When I degass, I DO NOT want to add more oxygen after the first three days of the fermentation. continuing oxygenation after three then is not necessary and can be damaging.to flavor. I stir a full carboy with a long wand does the job. I do it to speed fermentation and would do it before bottling if I ever bottled soon after the fermentation had taken place. My mead making outstrips my mead drinking so things don't get bottled until long after the C02 has dissipated. Now the first three days, I will put a new clean airstone and an aquarium pump on my mead to really build up the yeast population. After three days we have enough yeast and O2 only builds more instead of building alcohol.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Canon City Colorado
    Posts
    74

    Smile Re: De-gassing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vance G View Post
    The C02 building up in the must is in itself antimicrobial and to an extent slows down fermentation. When I degass, I DO NOT want to add more oxygen after the first three days of the fermentation. continuing oxygenation after three then is not necessary and can be damaging.to flavor. I stir a full carboy with a long wand does the job. I do it to speed fermentation and would do it before bottling if I ever bottled soon after the fermentation had taken place. My mead making outstrips my mead drinking so things don't get bottled until long after the C02 has dissipated. Now the first three days, I will put a new clean airstone and an aquarium pump on my mead to really build up the yeast population. After three days we have enough yeast and O2 only builds more instead of building alcohol.
    I am not going to say your method is wrong because that is what works for you. I will say however that knowledge of mead making was nearly lost and that one of the bigest misconceptions surrounding it is that todays mazer has approached mead making from a vintners point of view. Mead is NOT wine as we know wine though many treat it as such and ferment it the same. Mead is truly a different animal just as beer is different from wine. Just because the modern mazer creates his meads in the same fassion that vintners create their wines does not mean that is the how you are supposed do it. Is it a logical approach? Certainly it is a logical approach to treat your mead like wine because they are simular. A foolish approach to mead is from a closed mind! I have been fermenting beverages since the mid 80's and mead has been my favorite by far. This is not to say I know everything because I most certainly don't but I was foolisly lead to believe that mead was wine and had to treated as such. I have since researched the making of mead and learned that many of todays mazers have gotten their information from vintners. The true art of mead making was perfected by the Vikings and Celts not the Romans! The Romans were and are vintners not mazers! I make some really good mead that has been enjoyed by many others and my approach is a more ancient one with the exception of modern equipment. This is only one perspective and the one I have and I am not alone in it either. Good luck

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    7,800

    Default Re: De-gassing?

    I am glad you allow me my ignorance. How gracious of you.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Canon City Colorado
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: De-gassing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vance G View Post
    I am glad you allow me my ignorance. How gracious of you.
    LOL...... sorry, I do realize that I am preaching and beating a dead horse so to speak. I am making some of the best mead in my life now that I am taking a slightly different approach. I was just wanting to share. Happy fermenting sir!

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Louisville, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,541

    Default Re: De-gassing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoRaptor View Post
    I am making some of the best mead in my life now that I am taking a slightly different approach.
    What's your new approach? Thanks.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Canon City Colorado
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: De-gassing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnie View Post
    What's your new approach? Thanks.
    I used to make mead just like wine. It was good but I wanted to learn more about mead and how it was made hundreds of years ago. So, in the process of reading books, searching Google and talking with others I learned that mead is different from wine just as beer is different from wine and mead. I have traditionally used champagne/wine yeast for my mead and it works great if you are making honey wine. I have found that other yeast work well and yet others work better! Take Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale yeast, it works better than any champagne yeast I used in the past! It ferments fast, clean, is less temperature sensitive when it comes to producing fusils and has produced ABV's of 20%. Oxygen, I used to do everything I could to keep oxygen away from my must/mead.... Now I degas every day sometimes twice a day vigorously for the first 3 to 5 days. This promotes healthy yeast that ferment the crap out of the sugars in my must! I step feed nutrients roughly every 12 hours or 1/3 sugar breaks. I use Fermaid K an O, DAP and K2CO3. 3 days before pitching I will have my yeast/GoFerm on a stir plate so it is healthy, happy and robust! I also NEVER boil or heat my honey! After the first 3 to 5 days I leave it alone and monitor the CO2 rate until it slows to about a bubble a minute then rack into a carboy with a waterless airlock. There it stays until it clears. I have had clear yummy mead in as little as a month! I don't like preservatives and avoid sulfites almost completely! I have been experimenting with historical meads like Gruit and Sima. I have had some amazing mead as well as a few failures but all in all my mead making has improved dramatically!!
    Last edited by ColoradoRaptor; 01-11-2017 at 09:29 PM. Reason: typo...

  16. #15
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Knox, Pa. USA
    Posts
    5,400

    Default Re: De-gassing?

    Okay There are a great many ways to do things and the results can be varied. But some things remain constant and that being science. No matter how much belief is placed in a theory scientific fact rules supreme each time. I hear people make claims representation and implications as though they are facts and find that often they are not even possible let alone reasonable. The really sad thing is that whatever the reason they do it the results are major setbacks for those who take such statements as fact.
    First Off let me say that by definition Mead is Honey Wine!

    Degassing during fermentation is not really degasing. it is infusing Oxygen to promote yeast multiplication. Yeast multiplies aerobically (in the presence of oxygen) and produces alcohol anaerobically (in the absents of oxygen) working yeast produces Co2 Although stirring active yeast will bring Co2 out of solution. It will NOT degas as the infused Oxygen will promote yeast multiplication which will result in the production of more Co2 than is displaces by stirring.
    Secondly. A given yeast can only produce alcohol by volume equal to it's alcohol tolerance. Alcohol tolerance is a given yeasts ability to survive in the presence of alcohol measured in percentage. Wyeath 1388 Has an alcohol tolerance of between 12 -13% with low fluctuation. Meaning no matter how much sugar you start with, how many times you sack, or how often you stir, dance or pray. you will never produce anything with 20%alcohol. If one doubts the tolerances follow the link to Wyeath's site and read it for yourself! https://www.wyeastlab.com/yeast-stra...ian-strong-ale.

    Neither does it make sense to arbitrarily add Potassium Carbonate ( K2CO3 ) which is 99.995 trace metals to your must prior to fermentation, then after fermentation add Acid blend to taste. It Just makes no sense! The more logical approach would be to ferment, taste and if acid sourness is present them add the K2CO3. If not then nothing need be done. We must remember that a degree of acidity is necessary for mouth feel as well as to preserve the mead.

    Mead benefits greatly from aging. a mead that taste decent after fermentation will be twice as good after a year. However, one must be cautioned that as mead goes through the aging there is a point where it actually gets worse before it get better this generally occurs between 3 and 9 months.

    I have attended many seminars as well as private instruction from some of the worlds most notable masers. all seem to agree that the number one flaw found in meads is excessive oxidation mead is very sensitive to oxidation the results are that it can rapidly and greatly effect the meads quality. For this reason manually degassing meads to make them still is not recommended. Combine this with the fact that a quality mead requires sufficient aging the need to degas is a moot point, as degasing is a means of hastening the beverage to stillness which will be done naturally during aging.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Carthage, TX, USA
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: De-gassing?

    Thanks Tenbears. As always a great explanation.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Canon City Colorado
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: De-gassing?

    Well, I am glad I got set straight..... I didn't come here to argue or start a anything but it would seem someone has a problem with what I have to say. It doesn't matter to me if everyone agrees, likes or dislikes what I have shared because that is to be expected. There was a time when everyone believed the world was flat to. The science behind all of this is ever changing and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Just because there is a standard way to do things does not mean that there is not a better way to do it. I have done my research as well as talked with brewers, vintners and masers though they must not be as notable as those mentioned above. Let me also say this, Wine (from Latin vinum) is an alcoholic beverage made from fermented grapes! Correct me if I'm wrong here but honey has nothing to do with grapes and wine is a word used today like "Coke". When someone asks for a Coke they may actually want a Pepsi. Mead (/ˈmiːd/; archaic and dialectal "medd", "Meath or Meathe"; from Old English "medu",) is an alcoholic beverage created by fermenting honey with water, sometimes with various fruits, spices, grains, or hops. The alcoholic content ranges from about 8% ABV to more than 20%. The defining characteristic of mead is that the majority of the beverage's fermentable sugar is derived from honey. It may be still, carbonated, or naturally sparkling; dry, semi-sweet, or sweet. I really don't need to add definitions but there are those that may not know or just don't care to look it up themselves. If you have a set way of doing things that works for you then that is awesome! I used to think like Tenbears and believed there was only one way of doing things and all else was poppycock or senseless. I have since learned that I was being stubborn and closed minded because I have been doing this a long time. Don't take my word or anyone else's word for that matter DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH as I did. For starters if you are interested in learning something read this Doctors work on mead, he is also on Got Mead Forums https://www.denardbrewing.com And I also wanted to mention that I am enjoying a Muscot/Clover Pyment that had a SG 1.175 and a FG 1.025! Do the math, that is nearly 20%! Not exactly 20 but close enough for me and I used Wyeast 1388......???? Clearly I must be wrong because science says so.... or maybe my hydrometer is lying to me... either way it is sweet, strong and **** good
    Last edited by ColoradoRaptor; 01-17-2017 at 11:42 PM.

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    St. Michael, MN
    Posts
    690

    Default Re: De-gassing?

    Never cared much for wine snobs who insist my fruit wines, some of which contain a good portion of honey, are not wine at all because they have no grape content. In the words of Col. Sherman T. Potter, "Horse Hocky!" To paraphrase something I just read, just because a word was defined in Latin does not mean there is not a better way to define the word.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Canon City Colorado
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: De-gassing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gumpy View Post
    Never cared much for wine snobs who insist my fruit wines, some of which contain a good portion of honey, are not wine at all because they have no grape content. In the words of Col. Sherman T. Potter, "Horse Hocky!" To paraphrase something I just read, just because a word was defined in Latin does not mean there is not a better way to define the word.
    For the record I am no wine snob, just the opposite actually! I have to agree with you, if you want to call your wonderful yummy alcoholic beverage honey wine because it is made with mostly honey, other fruits and it's like wine then you are not wrong for doing so. I was only making a point above. Sometimes technical terms get in the way of creativity??

  21. #20
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Knox, Pa. USA
    Posts
    5,400

    Default Re: De-gassing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoRaptor View Post
    https://www.denardbrewing.com And I also wanted to mention that I am enjoying a Muscot/Clover Pyment that had a SG 1.175 and a FG 1.025! Do the math, that is nearly 20%! Not exactly 20 but close enough for me and I used Wyeast 1388......???? Clearly I must be wrong because science says so.... or maybe my hydrometer is lying to me... either way it is sweet, strong and **** good
    It is not a mater of Thinking Like Tenbears, Because as I stated in my last post "There are a great many ways to do things and the results can be varied." I use many techniques to brew mead and yes I do Research. What I do not do is spread unfounded inaccurate information as fact. No yeast produces alcohol greater than it's own alcohol tolerances. To profess that you are magically making it do so is simply wrong there is no other alternative. I have pointed this out in the past yet you persist. It is just that simple. I need not "do the math" because it does not add up! Starting SG 1.175 somewhere between 1.093 and 1.080 wyeath 1388 yeast dies 12 to 14 % alcohol in a sweet mead.(I have No doubt it would be good!) When alcohol exceeds the tolerance of a given yeast the yeast dies, period. You can try to explain it away however you like but facts are facts the yeast cannot live in the environment. Just as you could not live in an environment where the partial pressure of oxygen is greater than 29.4 PSI you would die from Oxygen toxicity. These are unescapable facts. And it is Wyeath that says so when they developed the strain!
    BTW the term "By definition" is but a paraphrase often used to group items or similar things. like saying that old gal is by definition ugly. You really do not find her when you look it up!. Your reference "the bigest misconceptions surrounding it is that todays mazer has approached mead making from a vintners point of view" is also flawed Because quality meads can be made from sound wine making techniques, more so than hocus pouch do this do that add this to try build a better mousetrap. An understanding of every ingredient, supplement, compound and chemical introduced into the must, How they work and the role they play in the process is far better that mixing up a batch of whole hive mead saying that how the kelt's did it and proclaiming therefor it is better, is just foolhardy.
    Do some of your own research as you profess to like to, read about yeasts how they work, how they develop, how they produce alcohol. Understand the different strains and how their fermentations affect the mead. Understand that although healthy ferments are a good thing, a fast ferment may not be as they tend to burn up the subtle tones of the honey.
    Nothing personal I would respond similarly if you were telling people you give your bees bubble baths and they produce greater volumes of honey/ I would say it to my best friend. There is a big difference between varying techniques and insisting things that simply cannot happen!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •