OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees
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  1. #1
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    May 2012
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    Default OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    Ok.... some of you may have read my previous post in regards to dying bees by the hundreds after an OAV treatment late fall. The ground stunk with dead bee carcasses.
    I just got in from checking the hives since it got to 52 here today. Most of my hives are void of thousands of bees. Just a few hundred along with the queens remain.
    Mind you before the OAV treatments these hives were busting at the seams with bees.
    Anyone else have these same issues after treatment?
    Before you ask, the treatments were properly performed with the proper materials/equipment.

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  3. #2
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    Apr 2011
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    Pottstown, Pennyslvania, USA
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    724

    Default Re: OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    I've been using OAV for a few years as a cleanup treatment in late fall, early winter. I have never had that happen. I've had hives too far gone for OAV to save, but never an instance where I felt that OAV was the cause. Several of my friends use it as well and I've never heard them describe something like this.
    Dan Boylan, When in doubt "It's mites".

  4. #3
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    Nov 2009
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    Manning, SC
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    Default Re: OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    There is something more going on here than an OAV treatment killing your bees. It doesn't happen if you perform the treatments correctly (which you say you have) I'd call the Beltsville bee lab for instructions on how to send a sample to them.
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!

  5. #4
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    Mar 2012
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    Catskills, Delaware Cty, New York, USA
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    Default Re: OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beeman View Post
    Ok.... some of you may have read my previous post in regards to dying bees by the hundreds after an OAV treatment late fall. The ground stunk with dead bee carcasses.
    I just got in from checking the hives since it got to 52 here today. Most of my hives are void of thousands of bees. Just a few hundred along with the queens remain.
    Mind you before the OAV treatments these hives were busting at the seams with bees.
    Anyone else have these same issues after treatment?
    Before you ask, the treatments were properly performed with the proper materials/equipment.
    Am no pro here, but what you describe with the the queen remaining and just a few bees sounds like CCD; I am sure it is not a coincidence because of the obvious dying bees you had observed earlier but it's just an opinion. I would personally email Randy Oliver, or better yet, present your case on Bee-l, you'll get some answers.
    Proverbs 16:24

  6. #5
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    Aug 2016
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    Boyds, MD
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    34

    Default Re: OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    As a first year beekeeper, my experience is about an inch deep. But with that caveat, my bees seemed fine with the three OAV treatments I did in late summer and the additional one I did earlier this month. The only bees that died were the unfortunate 3 or 4 that got fried because they were too close to the vaporizer head when it heated up.

  7. #6
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    Jun 2013
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    Rensselaer County, NY, USA
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    Default Re: OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    This is so atypical of OAV that it it seems unlikely to be caused by it.

    OAV has been used for a long time, in many parts of the world, with all kinds of vaporizing equipment, and all forms of OA (the "official" kind, pure stuff ordered off the internet and the hardware store wood bleach type) and in probably tens of thousands colonies (counting all the ones in Europe) and with bees in all states of health and by beekeepers with a wide variety of attention to performing the job according to standards (i.e. some are extremely meticulous measurers and some just eyeball the dose.). And I have never read of such a response even in a modest way.

    Something else happened to your bees. Hopefully you sent a sample of the freshly killed bees to Beltsville when it first happened. If not, then collect some of the more-recently dead ones and send them. You will want to make sure that your comb is still safe for other bees.

    Hope you can get to the bottom of this, but I think it extremely unlikely you killed your colonies using OAV.

    Enj.

  8. #7
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    May 2012
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    Rockford, MI
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    Default Re: OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    I hope to be able to get some answers as well. It just seems so coincidental that the dead bees were so numerous just after (one day) the initial dose of OA. This is a first for me as well. Thanks for your time so far.

  9. #8
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    Jun 2015
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    Rib Lake WI
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    Default Re: OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    Well I'm not going to trust that you did the OAV properly. Is that the only treatment you are useing? I think there should be many different ways we should use for treatments depending on the condition of the hive at the time of treatment. Maybe a timeline on your treatments can give more of a clue as to what is happening.

  10. #9
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    Nassau County, New York, USA
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    Default Re: OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    If they made it to winter, they already beat Varroa. Why bother them with unnecessary treatments?
    USDA Zone 7a - elevation 148 feet

  11. #10
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    Default Re: OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    Quote Originally Posted by WillH View Post
    If they made it to winter, they already beat Varroa. Why bother them with unnecessary treatments?
    Just because they made to winter, does not mean they'll make it through winter! Besides they'll come into spring basically mite free. Recent university of Sussex studies and all studies I've read states that the broodless periods are the very best times to treat.
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
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  12. #11
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    Default Re: OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    Quote Originally Posted by WillH View Post
    If they made it to winter, they already beat Varroa. Why bother them with unnecessary treatments?
    Bee can make it to winter fine if they have varroa they just can't live to spring with varroa

  13. #12
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    Dec 2012
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    Default Re: OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    They can if you simply removed the infected cap brood frames to a mite bee bomb nuc hive. No other
    treatment is allowed.
    Seriously, the queen and bees never recovered from the oav treatment. Right now is too late to find an answer.
    If presented earlier I would give them a frame or 2 of bees and cap broods from another hive. It is too late now to
    find the caused of it. Maybe oav or the mites still in there. A timeline with dates of the treatments would help.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  14. #13
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    Dec 2008
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    Default Re: OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    Your oav was way to late. Crawlers are a good sign the undertaker needs to be called now. Bet a virus test would show a load so high the scale would break.

  15. #14
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    Aug 2011
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    KC, MO, USA
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    Default Re: OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    When and where did you get your OA?
    Have you used this batch before?

    There is another thread something about Amazon OA killed my bees. you might want to look at if you just purchased this batch.

    https://www.beesource.com/forums/show...=amazon+killed

    There is only one approve brand of OA to be used in a hive, if you buy something else there is a chance it has something other that OA in it.

  16. #15
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    Morro Bay, California, USA
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    Default Re: OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    OAV doesn't save a hive that has a killing virus load.
    Israeli virus and DWV show up as crawlers -- and are varroa transmitted virus.
    Nosema will cause crawling bees that spill from the hive in waves in the late fall and winter.
    Tracheal mites did this too, though that scourge has receeded recently.

    I killed a hive with an OAV overdose (years ago) and the die off was 24 hour, with dead bees within the hive, not crawlers weeks later.

  17. #16
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    Oct 2013
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    Caledonia,michigan
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    Default Re: OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    hi beeman, I have been hearing of losses like you described in our area. Some treated, others not.
    The ones that were treated, it was all around October/early november.
    Strange because most of them had food and were booming. So far I have lost a tiny nuc.

  18. #17
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    Default Re: OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    When did you treat exactly? If it was past August 1st, it was probably too late. Seeing dead bees soon after treating is suspect though as well. I see this all the time with late treatments or hives I don't treat.... they have massive population loss when the first cold spell hits and you're left with 1-3 frames of bees and a queen. Hives could've been 3 box deeps busting at the seems prior, but if you're virus load isn't under control when the winter bees are being made in early fall/late summer, or if the fall flow isn't very nutritious when these bees are being made this is what typically happens.

  19. #18
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    Default Re: OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    JRG13 describes the problem very well.
    What he describes is what I see here as well. I figure bee brooding naturally slows down by middle June, and by end of July, I see reducing populations with very high Varroa loads in the hives. If I don't take care of the might problems early enough, or if I don't continue to take care of them all the way into the end of November, then I have hives crashing the first cold spell that hits, even if the hives are well fed and with good stores.

  20. #19
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    Default Re: OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    This thread is another one of those "I treated my bees but they died anyway" threads, which in most cases means the bees were treated too late, busting with bees or not I've seen those hives collapse real quick.

    Having said that, we don't really know what happened to your bees Mr. Beeman, possibly something totally unrelated such as poisoning, with so many folks using OAV now, statistically someone somewhere has to lose his bees from something else just after he treated.

    Quote Originally Posted by WillH View Post
    If they made it to winter, they already beat Varroa. Why bother them with unnecessary treatments?
    If they made it to spring they beat varroa, for the time being.

  21. #20
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    Default Re: OAV and hundreds of crawling/dying bees

    Quote Originally Posted by WillH View Post
    If they made it to winter, they already beat Varroa. Why bother them with unnecessary treatments?
    If you think that I've got a bridge to sell you. Patently untrue.

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