Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives! - Page 6
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  1. #101
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
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    1,826

    Default Re: Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives!

    The OA seems to be drying out a little in a hot box. Maybe in sales the higher the moisture content the better the profit.
    Johno

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  3. #102
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Southern Maryland
    Posts
    146

    Default Re: Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives!

    Quote Originally Posted by orthoman View Post
    ... I noticed it has been fairly cold where you live - not much higher than 42 over the past several days, not sure past that. ...
    In central NY that's T-Shirt weather (I grew up in Syracuse).

    Sorry, I am not picking on you. I've just had the blessings to live in NY, Southern CA, mid-Atlantic, Deep South, overseas...you get the idea. It's funny to see what "cold" means to people. In complete honesty, my blood has thinned considerably since I left Southern Canada (Upstate NY) and I've gone pretty wimpy compared to my kin left in the NY tundra. So again, not mocking you, but 42 in February in Central New York is known as a heat wave.

    I'm in the much warmer mid-Atlantic now and run open SBB all year. It does get cold here (below zero) but not as long as up north. My issue is more humidity than temp, which is why I keep them ventilated nicely. We started winter with five hives and have five strong hives still (plus brood). So far, so good.

    From what I remember of your neck of CA, damp and/or chilly days are not uncommon.

  4. #103
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Schoharie, NY
    Posts
    136

    Default Re: Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives!

    Just wanted to update this thread:

    Coming into March now, and every hive I treated with Brushy MTN OA is thriving (8 hives). Every hive I treated with Amazon OA is dead (5 hives). The treatments were done roughly 2 days apart in similar weather. 3/5 hives died immediately, the other 2 hives died a week or 2 later after the populations were decimated by the OAV.. I contacted the OA people and they assured me NOTHING is added to their product and it is in its purest form. I so badly want to know why my hives perished. Could it have been:
    *Freshness of OA (no born on date on container)
    *Water mixing with the OA (from cooling the wand)
    *Overdose from different purities or densities (I used measuring spoons instead of a scale)

    Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

  5. #104
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Harrison Ar
    Posts
    284

    Default Re: Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives!

    Wow. Sorry to hear about your trouble. It leaves me a bit confused. I didn't see it mentioned, but, did you use the same vaporizer for both sets? Did you use a commercial or homemade gadget? I think I read that you did not use the two separately sourced OA on the same day. Was there any difference in the two sets of hives? Was there any difference in the way you used your vaporizer? Was there any difference in the day, weather, ect.? Just curious for my own knowledge. Not trying to pick a fight. Thanks.

  6. #105
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Schoharie, NY
    Posts
    136

    Default Re: Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives!

    I was using the $165 vaporizer wand that most suppliers sell (the good one), weather was similar both days, all of the hives that were killed were VERY strong hives (2 deeps + 1 medium each). The only difference I can think of are the stands the hives were on were open on the bottom so I actually used plywood to try and keep the OAV from blowing out sideways from wind. If anything that should have made the OAV less concentrated and less poisonous. Most of my hives are on two 4x4x8's with plywood on top but these didn't have the plywood so they were just sitting on the 4x4x8's.

  7. #106
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Harrison Ar
    Posts
    284

    Default Re: Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives!

    Thanks for the reply. If I get the chance this fall and have the resources I will try to replicate what happened to you on a small scale. A couple few nucs with the Amazon stuff. Very curious. Thanks.

  8. #107
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Harrison Ar
    Posts
    284

    Default Re: Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives!

    From everything you've shared I do want to add a professional opinion. I would not find it hard to believe that you have a bad batch from a foreign source. A lot of medications are now sourced from overseas and for along time the recalls on these were ridiculous. Several per week. It takes no leap of faith at all for me to believe that you might have gotten a bad lot. I suspect that you could go out and kill all the rest of the hives you have with that particular batch all the while everyone on this forum could order it and have no problems. It sounds like a very likely explanation to me.

  9. #108
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Schoharie, NY
    Posts
    136

    Default Re: Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives!

    If I did receive a bad batch do you think there is any way of receiving compensation for damages from those responsible? Or ways of testing the purity to prove their oversight/negligence? The website says the product is to be used for all "lawful purposes" which would include beehive application under the law. Though it doesn't specifically say anything about bees, this product could still be more harmful to humans as well, even if used under more "normal" circumstances...

  10. #109
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Harrison Ar
    Posts
    284

    Default Re: Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives!

    Sorry. The short answer is not a chance. It's going to be one of those things you get to chalk up to experience.

  11. #110
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Manning, SC
    Posts
    5,270

    Default Re: Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives!

    If you really want to know, send the Amazon OA to a lab and have it tested. Using OA from Amazon in a beehive is not lawful. Only BM has the legally labeled OA for use in a beehive.
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!

  12. #111
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Harrison Ar
    Posts
    284

    Default Re: Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives!

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    If you really want to know, send the Amazon OA to a lab and have it tested. Using OA from Amazon in a beehive is not lawful. Only BM has the legally labeled OA for use in a beehive.
    That would certainly a large part of the debate to rest. Do you know of one that is affordable?

  13. #112
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Manning, SC
    Posts
    5,270

    Default Re: Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives!

    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrightjr View Post
    That would certainly a large part of the debate to rest. Do you know of one that is affordable?
    No, but perhaps a member will respond.
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!

  14. #113
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Harrison Ar
    Posts
    284

    Default Re: Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives!

    Thanks. I think if he is willing this would be a great route for the original poster to pursue. It would lay to rest that part of the equation and may explain the cause or at least allow him to eliminate the OA as the cause.

  15. #114
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Schoharie, NY
    Posts
    136

    Default Re: Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives!

    I could probably contact the supplier of the safety data sheet found here:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byt...zOEtkYkE/view\

    EcoClean Solutions
    47 Heisser ct
    Farmingdale NY 11735
    888-565-7069 / 877-416-6880

  16. #115
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Chardon, Ohio
    Posts
    689

    Default Re: Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives!

    Quote Originally Posted by AG Fresh View Post
    If I did receive a bad batch do you think there is any way of receiving compensation for damages from those responsible? Or ways of testing the purity to prove their oversight/negligence? The website says the product is to be used for all "lawful purposes" which would include beehive application under the law. Though it doesn't specifically say anything about bees, this product could still be more harmful to humans as well, even if used under more "normal" circumstances...
    If the package it came in did not list an EPA registry number for use on bee hives and directions for use on bee hives it is illegal to use it on bee hives. As you used a product for an illegal use you are liable and no one else has the slightest liability.

  17. #116
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Northeast PA
    Posts
    509

    Default Re: Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives!

    Quote Originally Posted by AG Fresh View Post
    This was my second year treating my bees with OAV. I've been using the stuff from Brushy Mountain with amazing success. 1/4 teaspoon = 1 gram of OA and 1 gram per brood box so typically 1/2 teaspoon per hive. I was treating 2 weeks ago and ran out of Oxalic Acid with 5 hives to go so I had to order more. I went on amazon and saw reviews from beekeepers saying this worked for their varroa mites so I bought it! I went back out and treated my last 5 hives. 2 days later I went out to check the mite drops on my bottom boards and 3 of the hives showed NOTHING.. not even wax cappings. 3/5 of the hives were completely killed, with bees still in their cluster and butts sticking out of cells.

    This stuff says its 99.6% pure, does anyone know the purity of the Brushy Mountain oxalic acid?

    Attachment 29262Attachment 29263Attachment 29264
    I used that exact product a while back with horrible, horrible results.

    I would strongly recommend NOT buying that brand from Amazon.

  18. #117
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,612

    Default Re: Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives!

    Lots of things besides OA would do for wood bleach. Used for the advertised purpose it would go un noticed. Lye, tsp, etc. deadly for bees though. It is not hard to reproduce MSDS data sheets and stick on a container. That does not guarantee what is stated on the container is what really is inside. I have seen knockoffs that when taken out of the shrinkwrap expose that they are not even close to being functional in any way!
    Frank

  19. #118
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Scott county, Arkansas, Usa
    Posts
    1,713

    Default Re: Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives!

    Inactive or inert ingredients, I think someone touched on it earlier as we know can range anywhere from talc to cellulose. There is no telling what was in the OA the OP received.

    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  20. #119
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,251

    Default Re: Amazon Oxalic Acid Killed my Hives!

    I have always used Savogran brand with good results, until last year. I will admit that I have seen some variance in their product too. I got a batch last year that had an odd consistency when compared to other containers I have bought. The consistency was more like baby powder and barely clumped from the moisture in it. If you have used OA you should know what I mean. After vaporizing, it left a lot of black residue in the vaporizing pan. The worst part is it did not do a good job killing the mites and based on the drops, I was sure I had very few mites. It was a poor winter this year for hive survival compared to other years. I looked at the product the other day and even though the container is not well sealed, there is still very little clumping of the product. I live in a very rainy area and it should be pretty solid by now. It needs to go. The bottom line is, buyer beware. It pays to know the product you are buying. If something looks off, think twice about using it.

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