Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany - Page 2
Page 2 of 58 FirstFirst 12341252 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 1155
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    10,180

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by SiWolKe View Post
    The goal is to distribute tf drones as much as possible in our area.
    perfect. dar's story is similar in that he started with just one resistant colony from a swarm he caught only a few miles from where i live back in 2005, (please correct me if i'm wrong dar and fill in the blanks).

    his strategy was to make splits from this one and then allow those to swarm for a season or two in order to populate the area with ferals. he also made colonies available to others in his area to help increase the genetic foot print of these resistant bees.

    it appears that allowing bees to swarm in your area is prohibited by the regulations, so this may not be an option for you. your plan to bring in other beekeepers, propagate from the best of the survivors, sharing drone yards, ect. makes very good sense.

    i was told that there are some beekeeping clubs here in the u.s. that are taking an approach like this, but i haven't yet been able to communicate with anyone personally about how it is working out.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hamilton, Alabama
    Posts
    3,042

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    There may be a benefit in terms of mite resistance from using small cell, but I can't show it from my bees. They survive equally well on large or small cell combs. My bees may be mite resistant enough that small cell is not needed. That said, I still like the benefits of small cell in the spring buildup. The bees can cover more total brood area and tend to build up faster than bees on large cell combs. Combining small cell combs with narrow 32 mm frames adds up to about 20% faster spring buildup in this area. This is an advantage for the early fruit bloom flow, but it means the colonies reach swarming strength much sooner. What I am pointing out is that small cell has benefits even if there is no advantage for mite resistance. Also, that 32 mm frames may have advantages depending on local conditions.

    The genetic background of my bees derive from a single queen that I caught in a swarm in 2004 that showed very good mite resistance. They survived the winter of 2004/2005 with less than 20 pounds of honey and the next spring were the strongest colony I had. The traits they displayed were strongly tilted toward the old German Black bees (A.M. Mellifera) that were present here until varroa decimated colonies in the early 1990's. They were more likely to sting, foraged in very cold conditions down to 40 degrees, overwintered with a cluster the size of a softball, and still blew away the other colonies in the spring buildup. At that time, Dann Purvis had selected bees that were highly resistant to varroa. He developed a "gold" line with traits more like Italian colonies. I purchased 10 queens from him and used them as drone source colonies with which to mate queens raised from my single mite resistant A.M.M. queen. The combination is highly mite resistant but has a significant swarming tendency.

    Sibylle, I'd first like to ask a question about you. Are you an introvert or an extrovert? Based on your posts, I suspect an introvert.

    Does having neighbors who treat for varroa affect your bees? if so, how?

    When are you coming to the U.S? I'd like to see what you think of bees on this side of the pond!
    NW Alabama, 50 years, 20 colonies and growing, sideliner, treatment free since 2005, 14 frame square Dadant broodnest

  4. #23

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    Hey, Iīm sticky!
    Thanks, Barry!

    After reading Dennis Murrell I believe the best possible arrangements in a hive are small cell central broodnest with 32mm spacing between frames, bigger cells around and above and all build naturally.
    I will try this with one or two hives if I have enough survivors.
    For now Iīm happy they are still alive on their sc foundations.

    After the wax scandal in germany Iīm glad they have their own wax.

    My experience is still limited enough to be ignorant about things like build up, overwintering and swarming.

    Sibylle, I'd first like to ask a question about you. Are you an introvert or an extrovert? Based on your posts, I suspect an introvert.
    Iīm introvert, but like to be social. I`m wicca but practicing without a community. So you are right, FP.

    Does having neighbors who treat for varroa affect your bees? if so, how?
    I canīt say, really. My first treated hive robbed others. In 2014 a beekeeper had his nuc beeyard 400m near me but he is gone now. Iīm isolated 3km (AMM), 2.5km (carni) except one or two hives.
    My queens meet the drones. I can't tell you yet about the influence.

    When are you coming to the U.S? I'd like to see what you think of bees on this side of the pond!
    Thank you! I would love to visit. For now Iīm not able to leave my old mother in law and my old dogs. If you are inviting me to be an apprentice...mmh!!

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Joelton, TN
    Posts
    192

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    [QUOTE=SiWolKe;1492569

    I will start this weekend with summaries of the last two years, so please wait with your comments until I reach the present.

    !!!!

  6. #25
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    5,474

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    Hey Sibylle,

    Are your bees urban or more out in the country?

  7. #26

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by JRG13 View Post
    Hey Sibylle,

    Are your bees urban or more out in the country?
    Iīve never been to the US but my husband often works there for his company. What he tells me itīs not possible to compare the landscapes or towns, cities with our circumstances.
    So I would say, they are in the middle of being urban and country since all beekeepers I know including those the bees come from, are not living in big cities but near small towns.

  8. #27

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    [QUOTE=Redhawk;1492917][QUOTE=SiWolKe;1492569

    I will start this weekend with summaries of the last two years, so please wait with your comments until I reach the present.

    !!!![/QUOTE]


    Hey what are you waiting for? Iīm ready to answer your questions, red! Be welcome.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    7,861

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    My hives have the LWs (laying workers) too along with a mated laying queen.
    I had once saved a LWs hive by caging the laying queen in an entire empty
    drawn cells frame with the young nurse bees inside. I use #8 window wire screen to cover
    the entire frame for this purpose. After awhile all the LWs are gone and the queen saved
    this LWs hive. Patience is the key here!
    My question for the future is once you have reach 25 hives and not going to treat.
    What if some hives have the mites in them? Will you treat or just let them die or infected your
    other hives as well?
    This season I did not treat any of my mite infested hives since late Jan. Their mite levels peaked in
    July and August. All the virgin queens were mated and returned to the same mite infested hive. The
    ones that did not show signs of the mite fighting ability I did not treat them either. Some queens did not
    survive this ordeal. The ones that did continued to expand their brood nest despite the infestation until the present. We're in the middle of winter now. I posted 2 you tube links on the video gallery forum today of their orientation flights. I already spot another queen rearing operation here that their bees genetics might be compatible to mine. All mite resistant too!
    So do you plan to keep all dark, gray color bees or have any interest to keep the lighter color bees also?
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  10. #29

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    I had once saved a LWs hive by caging the laying queen in an entire empty
    drawn cells frame with the young nurse bees inside.
    I didnīt find a queen but this is a good idea if the laying queen`s work is destroyed by LW.
    ...but how to distinguish between young nurse bees and laying workers....? Not easy for me.
    What if some hives have the mites in them? Will you treat or just let them die or infected your
    other hives as well?
    My hives have had many mites for years now. So my difficulty is to know the level I have to act on. I never counted mites, but watched for virus damaged bees. If I see more than 5 of those crawling on the combs I will take the hive to my "hospital" place at home, far away from my apiaries and take out all capped brood. If I have more than one hive I take out the capped brood and combine the hives. I will do a sugar treatment then to shake down the phoretic mites. I have a neighbor with 10 hives treated bees near, I donīt want him to have my mites. Since I believe the worker bees genes and learned behaviors are a part of resistance, too, or a part of non-resistance in this case, I will change the queen and wait until there is a new generation if I ever put them back.

    I had a discussion with Erik Österlund about that. He ( and I) believe the older resistant worker bees will teach the others the defense. So if the hive is infested, but not much, it is possible to change places and let the bees be teachers.
    But in the end the genes are a part of the resistance so this is no solution without queen renewal. I want to observe each hive separately if it is resistant.

    So do you plan to keep all dark, gray color bees or have any interest to keep the lighter color bees also?
    My bees are already hybrids except of the mother AMM. They are mixed with buckfast and elgon, one elgon queen is golden.
    The color is not of interest to me. To have genetic diversity is more.
    Last edited by 1102009; 12-04-2016 at 06:35 AM.

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Joelton, TN
    Posts
    192

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    Great thread, Sybille!! Thanks for sharing. Having to rise above more than our every day world of tf & your strength to stay committed & focused says much about you desire to succeed at tf & renews the determination of newbees like me. So you've got it pegged (no offense,sp:-) as letting the bees maintaining the mites levels. If I understand correctly, you no longer have neighbors with treated bees near you. Have you been able to determine where your queens are mating & the type of drones, as in tf or treated?

  12. #31

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    You're off to a great start, Sibylle. Looking forward to more!
    Great thread, Sybille!! Thanks for sharing.
    Many thanks Nordak and Redhawk!

    The neighbors with treated bees are not very far away. In my area beekeepers harvest their hives in June to July before using formic acid to treat. Often they do not feed immediately after this. This starts robbing.
    I have to reduce entrances then, as I found out. I get an e-mail from the local bee club telling me when they treat and thatīs the moment I reduce the entrance to 2 cm.
    My own bees do not rob, because all have good stores this time of year. I only take surplus and if some are without food I donate honeycomb.
    I see robbers at my entrances but my bees defend their hives against foreign bees. ( I have one that let wasps in but no bees ).

    All queens will maybe mate with foreign treated drones. If I split early there are not many of those drones around because the first drone frames are cut out by most beekeepers here. I hope my sc not treated drones are more agile and have better chances, but I donīt know.

  13. #32
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    5,474

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    I dunno if you can say whether or not your bees rob or not, but I guess it's good to think of them in such high regard.

  14. #33

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by JRG13 View Post
    I dunno if you can say whether or not your bees rob or not, but I guess it's good to think of them in such high regard.

    Hehe.
    Do bees have a robber gene?
    Why should they rob when they are content? It must be stupid to risk life for a glass of wine if you have a whole bottle at home

  15. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Joelton, TN
    Posts
    192

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    I learned a hard lesson when mine got robbed this summer. Didn't think it could happen being rather isolated here but..... Sybille, do you prepare for robbing in advance or better how & when do prepare for robbing?

  16. #35

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    Seriously.
    I prepare with stores left and small entrances.

    There are many people telling me, italians for example are known for robbing. But has anyone ever tested if they do it if they are content with their stores?
    And I donīt mean the stores in broodnest area! I mean the stores of capped honey on top!

    The seasonal dynamics are like that: forage---brood---forage, brood, swarm---forage, brood--stores---forage, less brood-- stores if possible---brood---brake---brood---forage----brood---and so on.
    We steal the stores left is just what they need to survive until autumn. Then we feed something they take out of need because they have no choice. They prefer the honey (of others).
    How can they not be desperate?

  17. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    10,180

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    i don't know for sure, but my guess is that it is the lack of nectar available in the field that has the foragers looking for robbing opportunities more so than the sense that they do not have enough in the hive. we sometimes hear about hives getting 'honey bound' meaning that even the cells in the brood area have gotten filled with stores. it seems that some colonies are never satisfied with 'having enough'.

    it is commonly believed that some strains of bees are more prone towards robbing than others. i think that this is probably the case, and i believe the bees i am working with have a low propensity for robbing. i say this because i sometimes find hives queenless, broodless, and dwindled down while in times of dearth, and these would make easy targets for robbers yet they do not get robbed.

    i did have one colony this summer engage in what i believed was a robbing spree. we were in summer dearth, and this colony spent 2 days foraging from early morning to late evening, making a beeline in one direction, and coming home so fat they could hardly fly. the hive was already very heavy with honey prior to this, and it was the only colony out of 12 in the yard to exhibit this behavior.

    not being prone to robbing would be adaptative for mite and disease resistance by reducing the chances of robbing foragers bringing problems home with them picked from the weakened colonies. selecting for low robbing propensity might make sense for this reason, but unfortunately as jrg points out it is a somewhat difficult trait to monitor.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  18. #37

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    This is an interesting topic to me and thanks for your comment, SP.

    i say this because i sometimes find hives queenless, broodless, and dwindled down while in times of dearth, and these would make easy targets for robbers yet they do not get robbed.
    My queenless carni hives were not robbed, too, even the small ones I had provided with honeycombs.

    As I remember, my former mentor told me the carnis I have were bred for honey. This could be since I saw they always had much stores, even with our weather being rainy most of the time. The AMM had double brood and less stores, at the peak of breeding they had no capped honey, only open honey in broodnest area, but not much. The carnis always had capped honey.

    To me, the balance between brood amount and honey stores is an important selection trait, which means, that maybe this goes against the traits others breed for ( calmness, honey harvest)
    I want them to have stores always.

    But letīs see. Virus tolerance, in my eyes, has much to do with food supply. Food stores, the whole year through, would provide healthy brood.
    If this is true, the carnis must be better off than the AMM. But my gut feeling says itīs the other way around this year.

    The bees will teach me.

  19. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    7,861

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    I keep the commercial Italians now. They don't like to rob the neighbor hives.
    Why, I don't know. All went through the yearly summer dearth here and I did not
    feed any of them. Maybe that's why I don't see any robbing going on. Now bees are known
    to be hoarders. I have yet to see a bee not like sugar or nectar. Their goal is to fill up the
    empty cells with honey no matter where they got the nectar from including robbing. If bees don't
    gather honey then we have no purpose in keeping them, right.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  20. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    10,180

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by SiWolKe View Post
    The bees will teach me.
    indeed, this is the best way to learn.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  21. #40

    Default Re: Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

    OUT OF MEDIA

    https://www.julius-kuehn.de/en/news/...n-starts-work/

    Here you can see what is done for our bees.

    To me itīs not enough because personally I see no difference between a lethal or a sublethal dose of chemicals. In the long term they are all lethal or shorten life.
    This work is often influenced by lobbies ( industry lobbies).

    As a farmer you are able to get financial output to farm with bee supporting plants. These are often directly near a sprayed field so it would be better to protect rural areas with wild plants and flowers in my eyes.
    Our energy politics prevent this because the "green energy" needs much farming lands. Green energy is financially supported by government.
    The last ten years I saw less and less wild vegetation areas. But we have natural kept forest parks. This is good.

    I read yesterday in the bee journal that we have 30 locations in germany where feral bees are found. If they are ferals is checked now. they will publish a map. I hope there are some near me!
    The authors want you to tell if you see bees which nest in trees or shacks.
    I donīt think I ever will do that because I want them to be left alone.
    Last edited by 1102009; 12-05-2016 at 02:08 AM.

Page 2 of 58 FirstFirst 12341252 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •