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  1. #41
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    Dec 2011
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    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    I did a few tests this morning on a double deep 8 frame hive with no bees but a glass top to the hive so that I could see the effects of the vapor from the top. I first did a 2 gram shot with the original temp controlled unit with a 3/8" outlet, it took about 30 secs to vaporize but most of the vapor came up the center of the hives so that the middle 2 frames got most of the treatment. I then tried a new configuration with the heater band right on the bottom of the copper vessel and with a 3/16" outlet. This also vaporized in about 30 secs but the vapor seemed much finer and covered most of the inside of the hive with vapor leaking from the joints in many places. I had to use a silicon O ring to close off the top cap due to the increase of pressure due to the smaller outlet and the cap had to be held down for the 30 odd seconds it took to vaporize. It would appear to me that the smaller outlet is the way to go, I will now work on a way to keep the caps locked on while vaporizing I will try to post some pics of the vapor plume and of the hive setup.IMG_1053.jpgIMG_1056.jpg

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  3. #42
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    Jan 2014
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    Louisville, Colorado, USA
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    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Nice work, johno!
    I don't think you need to worry about vapor distribution in a hive full of bees. They will fan the fumes around. So probably you could go back to the 3/8 size outlet and be just fine. After all, the wand vaporizers don't blow vapor into the hive, they are passive and work well.

    Anyway, good work.

  4. #43
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    Dec 2011
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    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
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    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Arnie, we always try to build a better mousetrap. With the old wand system there has always been the odd hive that had more mites after treatment than it should of had so I will try to make this system foolproof. The reasons for failure to reduce mites is sometimes not clear and could well be that bees did not circulate the vapor and that channeling of the vapor occurred thereby only treating half of the bees so I think in the end more positive pressure of the vapor will be an advantage.
    Johno

  5. #44
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    Jan 2014
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    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    I can't argue with that.

  6. #45
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    Jan 2014
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    Brazoria County, Texas
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    323

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Johno,
    Go in the side not the end on the bottom board rim if possible instead of the hive body. No holes in hive bodys and the vapor has no frame restrictions just 3/4" open area to disperse in the hive.

  7. #46
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    Dec 2011
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    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
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    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Mgstei1, I have made the holes in the 3/4" rim of the bottom board not in the hive bodies. I seem to think that the vapor out of the 3/8" outlet comes out in more volume and does not spread as much, seems to stay in the center frames and does not leak out of the hive joints. With the 3/16" outlet it is completely different and is immediately noticeable through the sheet of glass and also the vapor leakage all around the hive.
    Johno

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Lancaster, PA
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    11

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Sounds like you guys are onto something!
    Is it similar to this product http://oxavap.com/product/provap-110...ial-vaporizer/ ?
    If so, then you should be able to market them here. Looking forward to seeing where this goes!

  9. #48
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    Jan 2014
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    Brazoria County, Texas
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    323

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    Mgstei1, I have made the holes in the 3/4" rim of the bottom board not in the hive bodies. I seem to think that the vapor out of the 3/8" outlet comes out in more volume and does not spread as much, seems to stay in the center frames and does not leak out of the hive joints. With the 3/16" outlet it is completely different and is immediately noticeable through the sheet of glass and also the vapor leakage all around the hive.
    Johno
    Sounds to me like the 3/16" outlet performs better by looks if vapor off times and charge remains the same.
    Best way to actually tell is by the mite drop and the colonies that make it through winter into next years honey crop or number of healthy bees.
    I'll try a swaged down on my device and see if I can tell the delta.

  10. #49
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    Dec 2011
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    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Just treated a line of 8 hives this afternoon with the vaporizer that has a 3/16 outlet. Once heated it was less than a minute per hive and the vapor was visibly exiting the hives from reduced entrances and all the cracks in the hives so I am pretty sure that the inside of the hives is getting a good coverage of OA. Even from working from the rear of the hives there is so much vapor around that you had better wear a mask.
    Johno

  11. #50
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    Louisville, Colorado, USA
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    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Nice work, johno.

  12. #51
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    May 2011
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    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    jono;

    Did you change your cap system or is it a problem with leakage now with the reduced dia. discharge opening? I have a couple of molds made to pour some caps with plaster of paris. If that does not stand the heat I have some higher temp refractory in mind.
    Frank

  13. #52
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    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Frank with the 3/8" outlet there was no leakage from the cap area but once it changed to 3/16" there was more pressure on the system and I had to keep a thumb on the cap to prevent vapor escaping. I then also put a silicon O ring on the cap to make sure of a better seal. I will work on a way to lock the cap on so that one could leave the device and perhaps load up the next charge while the vaporizing continues. Any way I am much happier with the amount of fog produced with the smaller outlet which could be due to the slowing of the gas and allowing it to sublimate much better.
    John

  14. #53
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    May 2011
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    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    I did a test run today with a 5/16" delivery tube and the cap I made with high temperature RTV silicone compound. I will have to hollow the cap out a bit as it barely contained the 2 gram (1/2 tsp) charge of Oxalic acid. Needs some spit an polish but this is proof of concept test so no concessions to beauty!

    The cap appears to be a tight enough friction fit to hold it in place
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Frank

  15. #54
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    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    How did the vapor work out Frank. I did tests on a hive with a glass top and felt I was not getting the vapor spread around with the 3/8" outlet and that's why I went to 3/16"
    Johno

  16. #55
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    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    I had a piece of 3/8 cut but decided to drop down to 5/16". If that does not create enough velocity I can easily swedge it down smaller. I did get a bit of recrystallization around the snout but temperatures outside were well below freezing. I think I may shorten the delivery tube somewhat so more heat is conducted out to the end. Probably after multiple doses it will run a higher temperature there though.

    Still have to finalize handle attachment. I want to minimize thermal bridging.
    Frank

  17. #56
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    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    My observation hive is starting to brood up so I decided to give the a gram of OAV before they capped any brood. I gave them a shot with the covers off so that I could see the cloud of vapor, and it covered the inside of the little hive the bees really reacted to the sudden intrusion of the vapor but soon settled down to normal. It looked like the queen was laying about an hour later.
    Johno

  18. #57
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    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    I just made a video on youtube of the band heater vaporizer in action, I pre loaded the caps with 3 grams of OA each and changed to the second after 30 seconds so the second burn was slower. I normally use 2 grams per treatment and take about a minute to move to the second hive so would not take longer on the next burn. If one really needed to cut down on the time you could use 2 band heaters.
    Here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxJqzRT1Gdk&t=6s
    Johno
    Last edited by johno; 02-17-2017 at 12:43 PM.

  19. #58
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    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    These are the pictures of how to construct the band heater vaporizer. There is a change from the 3/8" pipe outlet to a 3/16" outlet as I found this gives a finer particulate vapor. The parts required are as follows
    2 1/2" of 1" ID copper water pipe, 1 x 1" copper end cap, 2"of 3/16" copper tube, a # 10 x 3/4" mounting screw and 3 nuts, 2 pieces of 3/4" long 1" OD aluminum tubing, some 1/2 ply for the caps, a 1 x 1/8" piece of aluminum bar to mount this all on and a piece of timber to make a handle. The band heaters were purchased from Ebay for less than $4 each and were 110 volts, 300 Watts. (dimensions 25mm x 30mm) from China. The parts were welded together with copper to copper rods.
    There are posts already for putting in a temperature controller if desired. I have not found it necessary.
    PIC_1682.jpgPIC_1691.jpg

  20. #59
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    Aug 2014
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    Houston, TX, USA
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    646

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    I got the larger band and used a 1.25" pipe. That size is not in the normal stores, so I recommend the unit listed above. My biggest issue is getting a seal on the cap which is made a 1" and 1.25" cap soldered back to back. The tube expands too much to use the cap normally.

    3/8" was too big for the outlet tube. Tube blockage was a problem. I used a 1/4" OD outlet that works fairly well. I also ran the outlet vertically down by the band before turning out away from the unit. This keeps the vapor heated and lets me insert it into the entrance.

  21. #60
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    May 2015
    Location
    Kings Park, New York
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    36

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    John,
    So I find this thread very helpful, but I am trying to figure out what I would really need In The electronics area for this. I am looking at band heaters - which one have you have most success with? Second do I need a thermalcouple? I would like to maybe get or have the controller just for piece of mind of what the temps are doing and in some of your posts you say it's not necessary.. I only have a few hives and I don't really like the idea of putting a hot vaporizer inside the hive with the potential for disaster... so this looks like an inexpensive alternative since I have most of the other parts less the band heater ... thnks

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