Band heater vaporizer. - Page 2
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Madison, IN USA
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Johno, your band heater should draw more than 1 amp I'm sure. There are lots of places selling these things, I don't know if they all come from the same place in China. I agree that the higher the temp the faster the vaporization and the more pressure. There are those that argue that the OA turns to formic acid at temps above 370, but I have my doubts about that and probably will set it to a higher temp to speed the process.

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
    Posts
    1,718

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Indiankentuck I checked my AC current with a clamp meter and it read very low so I put my multi meter in series with the heater on the 10 amp scale and it was close to 1 amp draw then checked the current draw through the inverter and found 11 amps also doing a resistance measurement on the heater which measured 149 ohms this all tells me the wattage is in the 120 watt range so I need to get some of the heaters from ebay. I also used a paper mask when I did some open air tests as I mentioned I could see the crystals glittering in the sun, never even got a whiff of oxalic acid and definitely no smell of formic acid which I am quite familiar with so I do not believe the OA is breaking down to FA.
    Johno

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Central CA.
    Posts
    943

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiankentuck View Post
    I purchased these heaters from Ebay. $3 each and free shipping. The 25mm size fits a 3/4 cap perfectly with no gap.I think this increases the efficiency of the heater. Plus the phenolic isolates the bowl from any heat loss to the box. Without a temperature controller the temperature would be too hot very quickly. I am having no problems maintaining the temperature as vaporization occurs.

    I used 3/4 caps also.Worked very well. Where do you get phenolic?

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Madison, IN USA
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    It was left over from a previous project. McMaster-Carr, U.S. Plastic, and Ebay sell it.

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Louisville, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,531

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    I'm kind of a moron when it comes to anything electrical. How do you wire the band heater to the Mypin? And what do you use for a temperature sensor, or does the Mypin have one?

    Thanks

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Santa barbara, CA
    Posts
    779

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Arnie-
    It's a little complicated and the Mypin comes with chinese translated (not clear) instructions. Try taking a look here at this reseller, they have clear instructions. http://www.auberins.com/index.php?ma...roducts_id=106
    http://auberins.com/images/Manual/SY...tion%201.6.pdf
    You have to decide if you want 12 volts DC or 115 volts AC. How much amperage for your band heater, do you want to use an integral relay or a more robust external SSR (solid state relay) For a temperature sensor you'll need a thermocouple and a "K" type is the most common. Like this: http://www.auberins.com/index.php?ma...roducts_id=144
    If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.
    Abraham Maslow

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
    Posts
    1,718

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Arnie, if you have a mypin TA 4 the wiring diagram is on the right hand side of the unit, and shows input 90-260V so black to #1 and white to #2 one of the wires from the band heater will also go to #1 a short piece of wire then connects #2 to #3 then the other wire from the band heater goes onto #4. Normal practices would have the relay breaking the hot leg but I have purposely chosen the neutral leg (white wire) so if there is a ground fault in the heater it will not destroy the mypin contacts. $Just make sure the unit is grounded. The thermocouples I got were type K and there were 2 for $7-70 , just remove the yellow plug and connect to#7 and#8 turn the unit on and if the temp does not start climbing in about 30 secs turn it off and reverse the thermocouple leads and try again.
    Johno

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Bonn, Germany
    Posts
    384

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    ... Just make sure the unit is grounded. The thermocouples ...
    The thermocouples - ungrounded?
    What type of inverter? Modified sine wave?

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
    Posts
    1,718

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    I grounded the green conductor to the bottom of the #10 screw that holds the copper chamber to the aluminum bar with a ring connector. The sensing end of the small thermocouples I have are fixed between the bottom of the copper chamber and a washer and are held tightly together with that same #10 screw with a nut and lockwasher and you may add 1 or 2 more nuts to hold the copper chamber farther away from the aluminum bar. With the ones I built without controls I grounded the green to the aluminum bar with one of the screws securing the handle to the bar. hope that helps.
    Johno

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Louisville, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,531

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Thank you. Very helpful.

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Santa barbara, CA
    Posts
    779

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Here is some info on the various Mypin configurations, and an example wiring diagram. The TA4 would be the 48 by 48 mm size (smallest) TA4 would be 90-260 volt, TA4E- 12-30 volts.
    If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.
    Abraham Maslow

  13. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Louisville, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,531

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Sorry to be so ignorant but....if I got a Mypin, a thermocouple, a band heater and a three prong wire/plug (like off an old toaster or some such) I could wire it according to post #27 and be in business?
    I can figure out the metal work and attaching it to a base, but a wiring diagram is Hieroglyphics to me.

    Thanks guys!

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
    Posts
    1,718

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Yes Arnie, as long as it is a TA 4 RNR and look carefully at the terminals under a good light and you will see the numbers next to the terminals.
    John

  15. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Madison, IN USA
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    SJJ- I am using a modified sine wave inverter. It is working fine so far, but I haven't used it a lot yet. I treated 25 hives with the band heater vaporizer early last week here at the farm mostly with a 100' extension cord plugged in at an out building. I am very pleased with how it worked. With no cool down period between hives and 2 caps it goes much quicker then with a wand. As soon as it warms a little I have 50 to treat at outlying yards that will require that I use the inverter. Will it shorten the life of the MYPIN controller? I'll see, but I don't think it will.

  16. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Franktown,Colorado,USA
    Posts
    40

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    johno Were do you hook up the thermocouple. Do you bolt it to the copper pipe with the heater band ? I currently use a crack pipe ,but i think i'm over heating it with my propane torch and turning my OA to formic acid. I like the temp control of your unit. Why do you think you can't over heat your OA with your non controled unit

  17. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
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    1,718

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Rangerpeterj, the thermocouple I used has a very small tip and I fix it to the bottom of the copper end cap with a #10 fender washer that is bolted together with the #10 mounting screw with 2 nuts. If you fit it between the copper and the band heater you will prevent the band heater from seating firmly onto the copper and will probably shorten the life of the heater and also you will be measuring the band heaters temperature. You will find if the temp is much higher than the OA sublimation temp when the OA is added the temp quickly falls to around sublimation temp due to the amount of latent heat drawn at sublimation. I think with this method you can not supply enough heat to break down the OA, with a propane torch you possibly could. I have also been using a cheap modified sine wave inverter and it has worked out fine so far.
    Johno

  18. #37
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    4,743

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    johno; I just did the first few test runs. It takes about 4 minutes from cold to start seeing the first "smoke". The charge is liquified sooner though. Takes something less than a minute more for all charge to be emptied.

    Dumping a fresh charge in with the unit hot starts to send off smoke almost immediately and completes in less than a minute. Dumping three charges in seems to stall it for near a minute till it appears to be smoking again, and then takes a bit less than three minutes to drive off the three charges.

    I have no insulation on yet and the whole vessel is about 3 1/2" tall as I have not trimmed it. (Left space to put another band above the side discharge if needed.

    At this point with the single rated 300 watt band 30 X 25mm, I don't think there is going to be a problem with overshooting temperature unless you left power on with no charge in the vessel. I used nominal 1" dia. copper with a coupling sleeve over top to give the proper diameter for the 30mm band. Yes solder fittings are hard to find for 1" copper.

    I have not decided yet what size of tubing to install for the side discharge.

    It is not ready for photos yet!

    Multiple charges look possible but my feeling is that delivery rate may not be linear with time. It would be nice to have the unit sitting on a scale and watching the discharge rate in real time.
    Frank

  19. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
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    1,718

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Hi frank, I received some more band heaters from China yesterday and checked them with a multimeter for resistance and found the four reading from 138 to 148 ohms the ones I got from Amazon were also in that range so I would say we do not have 300 watts of power. I think that when insulated you will get up to about 450 to 460F in about 4 minutes, the size of the outlet will control the internal pressure and could push the cap off if it is not a tight fit if the outlet is smaller than the 3/8" that I started with. Now that I have more band heaters I will make up a few more vaporizers with maybe a 1/4" and a 3/16" outlet and see how they work out. If you want to cut down on time it might be worthwhile using 2 heaters perhaps I will also try that. My heaters are all 25mm so will fit on the 1" copper pipe for about $3 each delivered its almost a give away. I also think that multiple charges unless more than 20 at a time will make it more difficult to get a measured charge into a hive, more than 20 would be for commercial guys.
    Johno

  20. #39
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    4,743

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    If you went with two bands you might have to use temperature control but you already have that availability. For multiple charges it probably would be desireable. I did not test how long 3 charges would take to start smoking from a cold start. Certainly multiple charges will take longer to start if they are not fed in incrementally. I dont think I will pursue the multi hive dosing for now. 4 minutes warm up, then less than a minute per hive afterward will satisfy my "need for speed" for a while! I only have a dozen hives and have taken a pledge not to exceed that number!

    The page I was looking at on EBay where I ordered has some higher rated heaters if I remember correctly. I think it may be important to concentrate the heat on the lowest part of the vessel. If plugging of the discharge spout becomes a concern one of the cartridge heaters could likely take care of that. From watching a similar unit on Youtube that did not seem to be a problem.
    Frank

  21. #40
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Santa barbara, CA
    Posts
    779

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    If anyone is using 3/4" ID copper pipe and want a higher quality, higher performance coil heater I've found some on ebay that fit perfectly. They both have an internal diameter of 0.875" and are made by Thermetic Products. They are rated at 268 watts and 230 volts but work quite well on 120v. They have a built in "K' type thermocouple and fancy "axial clamp" type cam tightening mechamism and teflon insulation. There are two types 70A-40TJ with round coils and 80A-28RTJ with flat coils. Coil heaters are made of nickel chrome resistance wire placed inside a chrome nickel steel tube filled with MgO powder and compacted for faster and efficient heat transfer. They heat up quickly and get quite hot. $19.43 shipped.

    Round coils- http://www.ebay.com/itm/252067962143...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

    Flat Coils-http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Coil-Ba...3D252067962143
    If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.
    Abraham Maslow

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