Band heater vaporizer. - Page 32
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  1. #621
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
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    1,759

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Lburou, I used 11/4" couplings which gave me just under 11/2 " OD for the 270 Watt by 11/2" ID by 11/2" long band heaters which can be obtained from Plastic Process Equipment. I do not know if you will be able to stretch them to 1.625" OD of your couplings. My couplings are only 2" long so if you can make an aluminum plug you could go as much as a 1/2" into your coupling although 3/8" could be enough. You would need to machine the aluminum to the correct dimensions then heat the copper up some and cool the aluminum when you press it in. I build mine by putting the 11/4" coupling onto a flat piece of copper and then silphos welding them on the inside of the coupling then trim the excess flat off the bottom with metal shears and finish of with a disc sander. I have just checked the band heaters I use and the max they will go around is 1.567"
    Johno

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  3. #622
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
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    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Just one thing I forgot to add, if you do not use a temperature controller the wattage of you heater would probably have to be in the 100 to 150 watts or else the heater would probably fail due to overheating at the 100 to 150 watt level you would end up slowing the sublimation process down to the level of perhaps 1 treatment every 11/2 minutes which would bring you back to the El Cheapo model using 1" pipe and the cheap Chinese band heater.
    Johno

  4. #623
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Greensboro, NC, usa
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    Just one thing I forgot to add, if you do not use a temperature controller the wattage of you heater would probably have to be in the 100 to 150 watts or else the heater would probably fail due to overheating at the 100 to 150 watt level you would end up slowing the sublimation process down to the level of perhaps 1 treatment every 11/2 minutes which would bring you back to the El Cheapo model using 1" pipe and the cheap Chinese band heater.
    Johno
    Yes, mine is 140W and doesn't use a heat controller. It heats up in 4 min or so and vaporizes in 30 sec or so. Also I don't have to wait between treatments as it heats back up very quickly.

    Used 110V version of this product at https://www.aliexpress.com/item/40mm...40694c4di5ZWNf

  5. #624
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fulton, GA
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Hi, I have been getting a lot of good information from this thread and want to give back a little. I am attaching the TA4-RNR wiring diagram to the external devices for people who are visual like me. I will note that I used the relay to switch power, not ground. I don't like the idea of an energized band heater (with respect to ground) as a default state. If you want to use johno's setup, move the band heater wire from terminal 2 to terminal 1 and move the jumper wire from terminal 1 to terminal 2.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #625
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    DFW area, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,944

    Question Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Johno, could you fill a gap in my education and help me understand choosing the MYPIN PID over one of the REX- C100 units like the ProVap units use? They cost half as much. Apologies if you have already answered this.
    ...We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are...

  7. #626
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
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    1,759

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Lburou, the Rex is much deeper than the Mypin for one, so you would require a deeper box to house it in. The Rex is in temperature C only while the Mypin is able to run C or F. Most of the cheap Rex controllers are for solid state relays so an extra component needs to be added which further increases the cost and size of the housing required besides complicating the circuitry. By using the Mypin in my design I can use a 60 cent box to house it in while for a Rex we would be in a much higher dollar range for the box the unit would be a lot bigger and heavier and I wonder exactly what the savings would be if any at all.
    Johno

  8. #627
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Portland, Tennessee, USA
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    285

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Also a question for johno. The type k thermocoupler you mentioned is the type used for multi meters. I have not found a particular listing for such. I did find those used for thermometers. Are these the same thing? My knowledge is limited in this area so please forgive me. Thanks so much for this thread & thanks to all who have contributed.
    Beeman
    All things may be lawful; but not all things are advantagous.

  9. #628
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
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    1,759

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Beeman2009, you have to search Amazon and ebay for this type of thermocouple in the link below.
    https://www.amazon.com/Extech-TP870-...r+thermocouple
    Johno

  10. #629
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    Dec 2011
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    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
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    1,759

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Now I forgot to mention in post 626 that mypins are also available for solid state outputs, the one I use has a relay output and so is Termed as a Mypin TA4-RNR it is important that you get the correct mypin controller. Also if you are tempted to use a Rex controller be aware that they are sometimes designed to use only one type of thermocouple whereas the Mypin can be programmed to use any of the thermocouple types. Ptwats wiring is basically correct to the conventional wiring codes, however I felt that in the case of a ground fault in the band heater we would trip out the GFI or the outlet circuit breaker, if the hot went through the temp controller you would need to replace the controller and the band heater but if the neutral was switched by the controller and you had a fault in the band heater you would end up only replacing the heater, But this also means that it is important to have a solid ground connection connected to the metal of the heating chamber.
    Johno

  11. #630
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fulton, GA
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    I can understand protecting the contacts. The relay can be protected by adding a 5 amp fuse since the contacts are rated at 5 amps and the heater draws less than three amps. Because the load is resistive, a regular fast blow fuse should work. The input power should have a fuse as well and one fuse can protect the whole unit as well as the contacts.

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by ptwat; 10-09-2018 at 05:42 AM. Reason: Remove one fuse

  12. #631
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Portland, Tennessee, USA
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    285

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Thanks johno. I got it now.
    Beeman
    All things may be lawful; but not all things are advantagous.

  13. #632
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    DFW area, TX, USA
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    1,944

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    ...The Rex is in temperature C only while the Mypin is able to run C or F. Most of the cheap Rex controllers are for solid state relays so an extra component needs to be added...Now I forgot to mention in post 626 that mypins are also available for solid state outputs, the one I use has a relay output and so is Termed as a Mypin TA4-RNR it is important that you get the correct mypin controller....
    Johno
    All good reasons Johno, thank you!
    ...We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are...

  14. #633

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Lburou, here is a link for REX-C100 0-400*C relay output and it is 4"deep https://www.aliexpress.com/item/PID-...4a874c4dX4bnyg
    Last edited by cyou; 10-08-2018 at 09:06 PM.

  15. #634
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    May 2012
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    DFW area, TX, USA
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    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cjj View Post

    I got them on eBay
    HAMMOND 1591TSBK ENCLOSURE, MULTIPURPOSE, ABS, BLACK 1 piece
    Quote Originally Posted by cyou View Post
    Lburou, here is a link for REX-C100 0-400*C relay output and it is 4"deep https://www.aliexpress.com/item/PID-...4a874c4dX4bnyg
    I recognize Johno has blazed a trail for the rest of us, and we're copying most of his work for our Bee Club Vaporizer project...But, that person inside me who will do most anything to save a dollar has checked into cyou's link. The REX C100(M) is supposed to have a built-in 'Control' Relay and will fit into Cjj's box with half an inch to spare. So, I'm going to risk $6.85 to find out if we can make this work for us and save $15-20 in the process. Working in Centigrade doesn't seem too big a concession at this point.

    We will report back about how this goes.
    ...We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are...

  16. #635
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
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    1,759

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Lburou, using the Rex controller will make the device quite a bit cheaper and will not effect the performance in any way. The reason that I used the Mypin is because it is smaller and more easily suits the way I build the device. It is the principle that matters and the Rex controller does not effect that at all.
    Johno

  17. #636
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    May 2012
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    DFW area, TX, USA
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    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    ... It is the principle that matters and the Rex controller does not effect that at all.
    Johno
    Thanks for the encouragement JohnO.

    Johno, have you tried the screw type thermocouple? (like this one)
    Last edited by Lburou; 10-13-2018 at 10:44 AM.
    ...We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are...

  18. #637
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Driggs, Idaho, USA
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    152

    Default

    Do you have a link to the screw type thermocouple? If you are talking about a threaded thermocouple (solid instead of a wire end) then you would need to solder a thermowell onto your copper cup. It should work and might be a better option long term..

    Edit: and by solder i mean silver solder or braze
    Last edited by yotebuster1200; 10-13-2018 at 10:07 AM.

  19. #638
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    DFW area, TX, USA
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    1,944

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by yotebuster1200 View Post
    Do you have a link to the screw type thermocouple? If you are talking about a threaded thermocouple (solid instead of a wire end)...It should work and might be a better option long term..

    Edit: and by solder i mean silver solder or braze
    Yes, I put a link in the post above.

    Our preliminary plan is to press an aluminum plug into the bottom of the copper coupling. With a plug of about 5/8" thick/deep in one end of the coupling, we can thread the screw type thermocouple into the bottom of the plug. We can also thread that same plug in the center of the bottom and use it to mount the metal strip holding the PID and handle. This would leave the (inside) bottom of the sublimation bowl with a clean flat surface. It should require no special equipment to accomplish. Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Lburou; 10-13-2018 at 11:11 AM. Reason: edited word choice
    ...We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are...

  20. #639
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
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    1,759

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    In the following pics you will see why I use the Mypin controller, If you figure in the cost of the box you have to buy for the Rex and then all the extra work to put the thing together I do not know if you are any better off. As you can see my copper bottomed cylinder has the mounting screw coming through the bottom and the twisted end of the instrument thermocouple gets clamped with a stainless washer( 3/16" fender washer ) directly to the copper bottom
    IMG_1436.jpg IMG_1437.jpg
    You can see why the Rex controller will not work on my system.

  21. #640
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Vauxhall, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    342

    Default Re: Band heater vaporizer.

    I agree with Johno, that the Mypin & 'clamp-between' thermocouple makes the most sense. All my Mypins came with screw-in thermocouples, but getting this all to make good thorough contact on an all copper welded chamber did not work or was to much extra work. Also, when in heating mode, upside down, the heat travels up more then down and gives a good reading on the bottom clamped thermocouple.

    Yotebuster & lburou, one is allowed to try anything, but using a bottom alu plug puts a different material in again and sealing all long-term may proof difficult. Find a good tig welder and have a bottom welded in, copper to copper and you will have fun for a long time.

    I only use the mypin on mine as a temp-readout, cause I ordered the bloody wrong mypin TA4 SNR+K, but my unit works good without temp-control with the clamped-between thermocouple. Once my TA4 RNR shows up, it should work in auto mode.

    Joerg
    Summ Summ Bienchen summ herum

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