Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017 - Page 4
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  1. #61
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    Mar 2015
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    Kamloops, BC, Canada
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    What pollen already? I have at least a month before 1st pollen. Still frozen solid around here though gradually warming up. I think I may get a warmish day (7 C) this week to pop some inner covers, clean up some deadouts, assess food and see if I have to get in gear or not.

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  3. #62
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    May 2013
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    Shreveport, Louisiana, USA
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by lharder View Post
    What pollen already?
    It's light beige. I don't know what it is. Maybe a variety of willow or maple?
    Last edited by Riverderwent; 01-15-2017 at 02:38 PM.
    David Matlock

  4. #63
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    May 2013
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    Shreveport, Louisiana, USA
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    I did a drive by check of another one of our three yards today. I was pleasantly surprised to see ten of ten hives alive and active. A few dandelions are blooming, and the bees were bringing in some yellow pollen. We have checked another yard within the last few days. So far, seventeen of the seventeen hives that we have checked are active.
    David Matlock

  5. #64
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    Jul 2010
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    nice!
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  6. #65
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    Shreveport, Louisiana, USA
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    I am going into the 2016-2017 winter with twenty-five hives.
    As of today, 25 of 25 are active. The bees are bringing in a fair amount of both yellow and putty colored pollen.
    David Matlock

  7. #66
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    Mar 2015
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    Kamloops, BC, Canada
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    That is a really good result David.

  8. #67
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    Jun 2016
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    west central Arkansas
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    1,080

    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    As of today, 25 of 25 are active. The bees are bringing in a fair amount of both yellow and putty colored pollen.
    Season 5. TF.

  9. #68
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    Jul 2010
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  10. #69
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    May 2013
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    Shreveport, Louisiana, USA
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by lharder View Post
    That is a really good result David.
    I was coming back from inspecting the last yard with my oldest daughter in the truck. I said, "I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop." She said, "What happened to the first shoe?" Kids. I'm still expecting the worst and hoping for the best. These bees come from some strong feral stock and have weathered hard Bond husbandry with no syrup. Gotta respect 'em.
    Last edited by Riverderwent; 01-24-2017 at 07:30 PM.
    David Matlock

  11. #70
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    Shreveport, Louisiana, USA
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    So, the other day, one of my smaller hives (two 8 frame medium boxes) was very active. Suspiciously so. Some of the bees took off just a little slower and lower than usual, and none of the bees were having trouble landing. There was no pollen coming in. You've seen this. Trying to be optimistic, I'm thinking, there's no fighting, maybe they are orienting. But that would mean that a good sized cohort of brood had already emerged. Way too early, right? Right. I did a quick check today and that two box hive is empty.

    The good news is the other hives I checked on were doing well. I lifted the back of the hives to check the weights. Two of the hives were what I would call normal for this time of year, not heavy but not light, and will need to be watched. The other hives were good and heavy. It was good flying weather, and the bees were bringing in a lot of beige pollen and a little yellow pollen. And I didn't see any more of those "orienting" bees.
    Last edited by Riverderwent; 01-30-2017 at 04:30 PM.
    David Matlock

  12. #71
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    ... And I didn't see any more of those "orienting" bees.
    thanks for keeping us updated david. we should be able to start peeking inside before too much longer.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  13. #72
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    This article has an interesting proposal of a soft Bond or blended method of selection. https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._Island_Turkey. The article suggests treating colonies with relatively high mite levels and requeening them with queens from untreated colonies with low mite levels.

    I suspect that Randy Oliver will be proposing a method along these lines in connection with his series of articles on varroa. A reservation that I have about this approach is that it does not select for resistance to viruses or mite "tolerance", by which I mean the ability to survive and be economically viable with relatively high levels of mite infestation.
    David Matlock

  14. #73

    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    This article has an interesting proposal of a soft Bond or blended method of selection. https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._Island_Turkey. The article suggests treating colonies with relatively high mite levels and requeening them with queens from untreated colonies with low mite levels.

    I suspect that Randy Oliver will be proposing a method along these lines in connection with his series of articles on varroa. A reservation that I have about this approach is that it does not select for resistance to viruses or mite "tolerance", by which I mean the ability to survive and be economically viable with relatively high levels of mite infestation.
    Thanks for that link, David and best wishes to you.

  15. #74

    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    The article suggests treating colonies with relatively high mite levels and requeening them with queens from untreated colonies with low mite levels. I suspect that Randy Oliver will be proposing a method along these lines
    In this study the difference between relatively high and low mite levels was a bit more than 1 percent. The infestation level not to treat was <1%, and the level to treat and requeen was little over 2%. This is where my doubts rise towards this kind of IPM treatment method to increase varroa resistance. They were doing sugar shakes which have very big margin of error, somewhere 50%, I suppose. It does take into account mite on brood. To make the right decisions which colony is the one to be treated (bad genetics) and those to be left without treatments(good genetics) is hard.

    After treating some and some left without, the colonies form many sub groups. Evaluation between hives becomes harder each year. I think varroa reproduction rate would be a better assay to select between hives than infestation rate itself.

  16. #75
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post

    by which I mean the ability to survive and be economically viable with relatively high levels of mite infestation.
    Since when does natural selection favor economical viability? That falls in the realm of breeding. Bees can't be bred. I don't think any level of infestation will result in acceptable results. Not when beekeepers attempt to calculate the cost of making wax and drone rearing in their bees. Any mites will be recognized as loses and considered unacceptable. Develop a resistant bee. it is destined to be rejected. Beekeepers want a bee with no mites.
    Everything gets darker, as it goes to where there is less light. Darrel Tank (5PM drawing instructor)

  17. #76
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    Tallapoosa, Georgia, USA
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    I think that the part that most explains the problems associated with mites is: "These experiences underlined that a major part of the
    varroa problem or its solution is to induce changes in beekeeper habits and convictions."
    Working to propagate my survivors and staying treatment free USDA Zone 7b

  18. #77
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    Shreveport, Louisiana, USA
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by tpope View Post
    I think that the part that most explains the problems associated with mites is: "These experiences underlined that a major part of the varroa problem or its solution is to induce changes in beekeeper habits and convictions."
    That caught my attention as well. You have to respect the authors' use of the best movie ever made. But to me it seemed like the authors were using a successful example of the "bad" to support their argument for the "good", if I am recalling their use correctly. Hard Bond worked in South Africa, so soft Bond is the answer.
    David Matlock

  19. #78
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    Jan 2005
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    Hamilton, Alabama
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Bees can't be bred. I don't think any level of infestation will result in acceptable results. Not when beekeepers attempt to calculate the cost of making wax and drone rearing in their bees. Any mites will be recognized as loses and considered unacceptable. Develop a resistant bee. it is destined to be rejected. Beekeepers want a bee with no mites.
    BLUP based breeding programs are primarily focused on commercial traits. They are now shifting to include mite resistance. IMO, a day late and a dollar short, but definitely counters the statement that bees can't be bred.

    There are plenty of mite resistant bees. The problem is that they are not yet developed for commercial use. Once they are, mite susceptible bees will be phased out. This will take another 10 to 20 years. As always, just my opinion.
    NW Alabama, 50 years, 20 colonies and growing, sideliner, treatment free since 2005, 14 frame square Dadant broodnest

  20. #79
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    Shreveport, Louisiana, USA
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    I am using the phrases "mite resistance" and "mite tolerance" to mean two different things. As Randy Oliver said, "Mite 'resistance' implies active fighting of the mite; mite 'tolerance' includes viral resistance, or other tolerance mechanisms." Treating colonies with relatively high mite levels and requeening them with queens from untreated colonies with low mite levels selects for mite resistance. It does not select for resistance to mite vectored viruses or other tolerance mechanisms. I have not fully considered whether that method has a neutral or harmful selection effect on mite tolerance. It might be best to say that it is a good start. Having said all that, I respect the adults in the room like Randy Oliver who take seriously their well earned influence and who recognize that there are practical limitations on even their ability to "induce changes in beekeeper habits and convictions." Different folks have different lanes.
    Last edited by Riverderwent; 02-05-2017 at 04:37 PM.
    David Matlock

  21. #80
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    May 2013
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    Treating colonies with relatively high mite levels and requeening them with queens from untreated colonies with low mite levels selects for mite resistance. It does not select for resistance to mite vectored viruses or other tolerance mechanisms.
    It's kind of academic for purposes of this point, but interesting to me that in some instances mite tolerance may actually depend less on virus resistance than on virus tolerance. The findings in one study suggested “that resistance to DWV (i.e. reduced DWV titres) was not a factor in the enhanced winter survival of the mite-resistant bees, but that enhanced tolerance to DWV infection (i.e. better survival of DWV infection) may be a factor.” http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0099998.
    David Matlock

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