Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017 - Page 3
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  1. #41
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    Shreveport, Louisiana, USA
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    2,543

    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    My problem with small cell is that it is me telling the bees how to survive. I prefer foundationless frames in the brood chamber because, with my use of the hard Bond method, using foundationless allows the bees to tell me what size brood cells result in greater survival. This is working in conjunction with open breeding in an area with many feral colonies. These feral colonies are also self-selecting for the best brood cell size for survival. I could measure and track the size of brood cells in foundationless frames in strong hives as I go along. But the optimum size of brood cell for survival may be quite dependent on the variety of bee and the eco-region. So, saying 5.0mm foundation works best in northern Louisiana would not necessarily mean that it works best in southern Arizona, Kansas, or Vermont.
    David Matlock

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  3. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
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    3,794

    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    My thought on the bees deciding how to survive is. This would be well and good and might even work well provided the bees actually know best how to survive. But I am not keeping bees for them to survive. I am keeping them for them to produce. and at least to some extent if production requires they die. then I will see of that can work for being profitable.
    Everything gets darker, as it goes to where there is less light. Darrel Tank (5PM drawing instructor)

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    10,180

    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    happy new year david. i see you are taking 25 colonies into winter this year, any losses yet?
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  5. #44
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    May 2013
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    Shreveport, Louisiana, USA
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    happy new year david. i see you are taking 25 colonies into winter this year, any losses yet?
    Prospero ao y felicidad. 2017, wow. I haven't checked on the hives during flying weather. I don't intend to inspect for awhile unless I see a problem. I do plan to check the hives' weights again in late winter and will likely do a drive by check on a warm afternoon. My guess is that I will be a humbled, but better steward by winter's end, or start raising chickens. Thanks for asking. Great thread on Randy O's new article. When I saw his article, I thought, "Oh no, he didn't," but you could see it coming in the tone of his recent articles and based on his general scientific approach. He's likely to be ostracized a little before it's over, but he's spot on with his main points, and he will be on the right side of history.
    David Matlock

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    River
    You better rethink the chicken ideal, You have to feed them.
    gww
    Ps sometimes chickens die too, I have a sick one right now.
    zone 5b

  7. #46
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    May 2013
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    Shreveport, Louisiana, USA
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by gww View Post
    River
    You better rethink the chicken ideal, You have to feed them.
    gww
    I laughed out loud at that. Maybe free range Old English Game chickens (with supplemental feeding).
    David Matlock

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
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    west central Arkansas
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Haha! Good one gww.

  9. #48
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    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    53,888

    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    >You better rethink the chicken ideal, You have to feed them.

    Back when they didn't clean the fields so well, I used to not feed them except when there was snow on the ground. Well, they got the food scraps, but mostly they ate bugs from spring to fall and corn from the field when the snow wasn't on the ground. I had to feed them when it snowed because they had too much trouble finding the corn in the snow. The Aracanas did great running loose. They managed to avoid the coyotes. Some of the others need to be closed up at night or they would get eaten by the coyotes, foxes, skunks, etc. Now the corn fields have nothing in them after harvest... but they still live fine on grasshoppers, crickets, ticks etc. all summer. Of course if you put them in a fence...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  10. #49
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    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    5,469

    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    I liked Randy's Fruit and Nut comment... anyways, pretty much what he's outlining is the approach that I've been undertaking as well. See if I can shift some trait expression into decent stocks or mine it out of the current decent stocks and try to stabilize them into a breeding population. River, do you have any aspirations to raise queens anytime soon?

  11. #50
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    Feb 2015
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    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Michael
    Back when they didn't clean the fields so well, I used to not feed them except when there was snow on the ground. Well, they got the food scraps, but mostly they ate bugs from spring to fall and corn from the field when the snow wasn't on the ground. I had to feed them when it snowed because they had too much trouble finding the corn in the snow. The Aracanas did great running loose. They managed to avoid the coyotes. Some of the others need to be closed up at night or they would get eaten by the coyotes, foxes, skunks, etc. Now the corn fields have nothing in them after harvest... but they still live fine on grasshoppers, crickets, ticks etc. all summer. Of course if you put them in a fence...
    Mine run "free as a bird" you might say. I think what they do is go out and play and then come back to the feed bowl and eat even more.

    River
    Sorry for the thread side track. I did think it was funny when I first typed my chicken responce knowing how you keep bees and all. I tried to do the same but "Chickened out" before the year was out. Thats how first year guys are. You did help me with some swarm advice once and you method of not feeding is in my plan book when I get over my yellow streak.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  12. #51
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    May 2013
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    Shreveport, Louisiana, USA
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by JRG13 View Post
    River, do you have any aspirations to raise queens anytime soon?
    I do, but so far I'm terrible at it. I took awhile to learn to use larvae that were young enough. Then, I had to come to terms with how strong mating hives have to be, particularly in my location, since the advent of small hive beetles. A teacup of bees didn't cut it. So I could burn through even more bees while learning to deal with dragonflies (and birds) that seemed to have a taste for my virgin queens and while building and trying unsuccessfully to use Cloake boards and a few other gimmicks. All while our largely short, strong flows are going. And being hesitant to feed, which is not particularly compatible with queen rearing. And, as both my wife and my partner in the bee bidness might say, being a little stubborn, which is not necessarily good when you need to listen and learn. So, although I enjoy and am pretty decent at the actual grafting part, the queen rearing learning curve has been steep for me.

    I have had good success raising queens with splits using both supercedure and emergency cells. But the number of queens that you can raise from a single mother queen is kinda limited when you're splitting rather than grafting. And I do have some colonies that I would like to be able to have a larger number of queens from than I would get with splits. But at the moment I'm regrouping before trying to jump back into queen rearing. Thanks for asking.
    David Matlock

  13. #52
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    Jun 2016
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    west central Arkansas
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    I do, but so far I'm terrible at it. I took awhile to learn to use larvae that were young enough. Then, I had to come to terms with how strong mating hives have to be, particularly in my location, since the advent of small hive beetles. A teacup of bees didn't cut it. So I could burn through even more bees while learning to deal with dragonflies (and birds) that seemed to have a taste for my virgin queens and while building and trying unsuccessfully to use Cloake boards and a few other gimmicks. All while our largely short, strong flows are going. And being hesitant to feed, which is not particularly compatible with queen rearing. And, as both my wife and my partner in the bee bidness might say, being a little stubborn, which is not necessarily good when you need to listen and learn. So, although I enjoy and am pretty decent at the actual grafting part, the queen rearing learning curve has been steep for me.

    I have had good success raising queens with splits using both supercedure and emergency cells. But the number of queens that you can raise from a single mother queen is kinda limited when you're splitting rather than grafting. And I do have some colonies that I would like to be able to have a larger number of queens from than I would get with splits. But at the moment I'm regrouping before trying to jump back into queen rearing. Thanks for asking.
    I can relate to about 90% of this post after trying my hand at it this year. Going to try another go this year. I've come to terms I don't have a natural gift for grafting and It's going to take a lot of practice to get it right. And the cell starter hive...don't get me started. Started...ha.
    Last edited by Nordak; 12-29-2016 at 06:17 PM.

  14. #53
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    Now the corn fields have nothing in them after harvest...
    Leviticus 23:22.
    David Matlock

  15. #54
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by gww View Post
    I tried to do the same but "Chickened out" before the year was out. Thats how first year guys are. You did help me with some swarm advice once and you method of not feeding is in my plan book when I get over my yellow streak.
    Feeding heavy syrup in the fall is wise if you're not comfortable knowing how much honey a particular colony is reasonably expected to need during the winter and what opportunities you will have to feed if conditions are unexpectedly harsh. Different breeds have different needs, weather is unpredictable, and our schedules don't always match up with the weather. I've been fortunate.
    David Matlock

  16. #55
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    Feb 2015
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    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    river
    Feeding heavy syrup in the fall is wise if you're not comfortable knowing how much honey a particular colony is reasonably expected to need during the winter and what opportunities you will have to feed if conditions are unexpectedly harsh. Different breeds have different needs, weather is unpredictable, and our schedules don't always match up with the weather. I've been fortunate.
    Thats what I did and not knowing what is normal is my weakness right now. Reading about stuff is not the same as seeing it long enough to know what works. Throw in the fact that feeding too much is bad also and me not having much comb yet also put me in a funny situation of not really knowing which way to turn. My goal is to learn enough to know when what is right. I would rather not be greedy on honey (getting it sounds like pretty hard work and getting rid of it doesn't sound easy) but would like some for me and the kids. My goal is to not have much money in bee keeping and to keep enough bees alive to never have to buy any.

    I couldn't tell you what breed my bees are. All are mutts I believe. Of course one of the swarms I caught could have come from someones new hive, who knows.

    I will decide more of what I want later when I know more. I take some chances to learn which is why I didn't feed till fall and also why I haven't treated. I might kill some bees but figure I won't know for sure unless I try it. I don't want to lose bees but also don't want to do but the bare minimum and not lose them. Mostly I am just building stuff and staying busy and staying home and hopefully being just a little productive or at least not moving backwards.

    No matter what happens, I believe I will learn a little along the way.
    I liked your queen rearing post earlier in this thread. It sorta keeps things in perspective with real life experiances.
    There is a lot to pick through and the actual trials and outcomes are a bit more handy then the Things that might work but can't be seen. It is a trick for a new guy to pick through it all and find what works for him.
    Thanks for posting and I try to learn from you.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  17. #56

    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    So I could burn through even more bees while learning to deal with dragonflies (and birds) that seemed to have a taste for my virgin queens and while building and trying unsuccessfully to use Cloake boards and a few other gimmicks. All while our largely short, strong flows are going. And being hesitant to feed, which is not particularly compatible with queen rearing.

    I have had good success raising queens with splits using both supercedure and emergency cells. But the number of queens that you can raise from a single mother queen is kinda limited when you're splitting rather than grafting. And I do have some colonies that I would like to be able to have a larger number of queens from than I would get with splits. But at the moment I'm regrouping before trying to jump back into queen rearing. Thanks for asking.
    This is a great thread to learn Im not alone in my struggles.

    Thanks, David and happy new year to you!
    Thanks to all the others for posting their experience.

    Dave, what do you do with the dragonflies and birds? Could be the mating problem at my bee yards too but Im not the kind of person trying to change nature`s ways.

  18. #57
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    Shreveport, Louisiana, USA
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by SiWolKe View Post
    Dave, what do you do with the dragonflies and birds?
    Serendipitously moved the hives to yards with less concentration of relatively defenseless small hives and less convenient natural cover from which the bees' predators could lay in wait without having to place themselves in jeopardy. Some of the predation is seasonal anyway.
    David Matlock

  19. #58
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Joelton, TN
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    192

    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    I agree, David. Great thread! I feel your pain with locations. Not moving to a new yard location but falling more trees that most go. My only reward there is that a healthy forest is a balancing effort. As the Blues called it "Question of Balance"

  20. #59
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    May 2013
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    Shreveport, Louisiana, USA
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Today, I looked at the bees in a yard where I keep seven of my hives. All were active. They were bringing in a little pollen from somewhere. Waiting for the other shoe to drop.
    David Matlock

  21. #60
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    Jun 2016
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    west central Arkansas
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    Today, I looked at the bees in a yard where I keep seven of my hives. All were active. They were bringing in a little pollen from somewhere. Waiting for the other shoe to drop.
    Very cool. Mine are bringing in pollen sporadically, very light yellow. I was happy to see it.

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