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Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

98K views 620 replies 41 participants last post by  Riverderwent 
#1 ·
The fall honey harvest was today. I am going into the 2016-2017 winter with twenty-five hives. Twenty-two of the colonies are in hives with eight frame medium boxes. Most of those twenty-two hives have three eight frame medium boxes, but a few have either two or four boxes. Three of the twenty-five colonies are fall swarms. Two of those swarms are in a single four frame medium nuc box. The third swarm is in a six frame swarm trap. All of the twenty-five hives are "chock full" as we say here.

In a couple of weeks, I plan to move some resources around and super the four frame nucs. I don't use sugar or syrup. This is my baseline for 2017.
 
#458 ·
I figure out how much honey the bees that live in my hives need for winter and how much space they need for that amount of honey, plus pollen and brood. In my location, for my frugal bees, that is three eight frame medium boxes for most of my colonies. Except in winter, I leave a queen excluder above that third box. Everything below the excluder is theirs and it stays theirs all year round. Everything above the excluder is for me.

Since I always leave the bees enough honey, I don’t feed them sugar water. On the rare occasions when a cutout or startup colony needs supplemental food, they get frames of honey from above the third box from another healthy hive. Others will disagree, of course, but I believe that keeping sugar water out of the hives causes the honey to be more flavorful. Others will also disagree, of course, but I believe that my not feeding sugar water has contributed to my bees being able to survive without my using miticides in the hive.
 
#460 ·
Others will also disagree, of course, but I believe that my not feeding sugar water has contributed to my bees being able to survive without my using miticides in the hive.
If I have contributed positively to that trajectory, it is from pushing positive genetic material into the territorial milieu, not from propagating and hanging onto a few resistant colonies. Broader success can come from a gradual expansion of the territory encompassed by that vigorous pool.
David:

Good posts. I always enjoy reading your evaluations of the mechanisms at work in your successful efforts to keep bees without treatments because you are always looking beyond just the individual colonies or yards and attempting to discern the larger forces at work contributing to the success.

Beyond this, I can also appreciate how your efforts to align your beekeeping with natural bee dynamics (i.e. no sugar water) help to promote survival.

If nothing else, it might be considered good stewardship that you are practicing to help promote the health and vitality of the greater bee population at-large in your area.

Thanks again for your posts.

Russ
 
#459 ·
For me, genetic vitality, including varroa resistance and tolerance, is a matter of geography rather than individual colonies. Success comes from the trajectory of the combined genetic outcome from feral and managed bees across a swath of real estate. If I have contributed positively to that trajectory, it is from pushing positive genetic material into the territorial milieu, not from propagating and hanging onto a few resistant colonies. Broader success can come from a gradual expansion of the territory encompassed by that vigorous pool.
 
#462 ·
My preferred smoker is a Dadant 4x7 with a heat guard. I was working on a Kelley and a Dadant side by side today. The Dadant has better fit and finish. I have a Dadant 4x7 and a 4x10. The 4x7 is a little more stable and handy than the 4x10. Heat guards reduce mishaps. I carry the smoker in the back of my truck in a stainless pot salvaged from a scrapyard with a 2" section of heavy gauge 4" iron pipe in the bottom of the pot so it won't tip over. I use a propane torch with a push button igniter to start the smoker. I mostly burn scrap wood shavings and dry punk wood for fuel.
 
#463 ·
The reason that the bees of the Arnot Forest are famous is not because they are unusual, but because of their proximity to Dr. Tom Seeley. Nature selects for survival. That includes productivity, but, unfortunately, not docility. If the bees in one of my colonies are overly “twitchy” they experience Sudden Emergency Queen Cell Syndrome. Fortunately, that has not had to happen very often.
 
#465 ·
“First catch your rabbit.” To keep bees treatment free, consider starting with a swarm or cutout with “good form”, that is, reasonable provenance of several generations of treatment free feral pedigree. Starting with bees that already have the uncommon characteristics of varroa resistance and virus tolerance and then breeding toward commonly found desirable domestic traits, such as gentleness, is easier than starting with common desirable traits and trying to select for the uncommon trait of strong varroa resistance.

If there is a background feral or drone rich treatment free population in your area and you allow your colonies to naturally supersede their queens, then you will be leaning into traits of survivability. By eliminating aggressive queens and making increase from good colonies, you can select for such qualities as gentleness, productivity, and non-swarming as you choose. As a bonus, the population buildup of longstanding local feral stock will be reasonably synchronized with local nectar flows.
 
#466 · (Edited)
If you’re not confident about what is going on, then do nothing right now or wait awhile and then do nothing. Whatever the bees are doing, most of the time there is a good reason for it. They know a good bit about being a bee. Show them some respect. They have good instincts for things like arranging their winter stores and superseding queens. Most of the problems of relatively new beekeepers are either (1) imagined or (2) self-inflicted. If you do something with the hive, then do it. Don’t do it half way because you’re not sure whether you should do it. If you’re not sure, then you probably shouldn’t do it or you should at least check with an experienced beekeeper before you do something. Not after, and certainly not after you’ve done it half-way. Or do what you want. You probably know more about it than I do anyway.
 
#467 ·
If you’re not sure, then you probably shouldn’t do it or you should at least check with an experienced beekeeper before you do something. Not after, and certainly not after you’ve done it half-way.
GREAT advice, David. This is a lesson I have (unfortunately) had to learn more than once already. Somehow I fear I might stumble into this issue a few more times...

Have a great week.

Russ
 
#468 · (Edited)
Having some treated commercial hives in the area is fine as long as they don’t crowd out feral bees by over foraging. Typically, because of commercial practices, there are relatively few drones in a commercial colony compared to a feral colony of comparable size. So feral hives have a disproportionately large influence on the genetics of colonies that have naturally superseded, locally raised and mated queens. This, along with the commercial practice of frequent requeening, is likely why some studies show disparity between the gene pools of feral and commercial colonies in the same geographic area.

If you allow natural drone rearing by using foundationless frames in the brood area, over time your treatment free hives will also have a disproportionately large influence on local genetics. And anyway having drone congregation areas with some commercial influence combined with some sound and simple husbandry helps bend the curve toward positive traits such as gentleness and productivity. Depending on local conditions, the beekeeper can nurture the positive influence of both feral and commercial colonies by eliminating queens in aggressive colonies and allowing them to naturally replace the queen and by making any increase and replacement stock from healthy, productive, and gentle colonies.
 
#470 ·
I noticed this weekend that there is a remarkable amount of goldenrod blooming in central and southwest Arkansas right now.

This afternoon, having more or less recovered from my fractured hip, I decided to inspect some hives and pull queen excluders and any unused supers. The weather was cool (60 degrees) and cloudy. When I pulled up to the first bee yard I expected to see some bees flying, but there was almost no activity. As I worked through the hives, despite my smokescreen and judicious and efficient (almost ninja like) movements, the bees decided that foul play was afoot and became more and more disturbed and defensive. They really don’t like being meddled with when their larder is full and the days are getting short. By using a sophisticated technique of lifting the back of the hive I determined that their larders were, in fact, full. After nine or so hives, we came to a mutual understanding that I would leave and come back in a day or two. They also not so kindly let me know that my jacket was not completely zipped up, and they had a few score of their finest guard bees escort me off the premises to avoid any misunderstandings.

I proceeded (or as we say around here, went) to the next yard and made about the same amount of progress. I did determine that we had lost one colony over the late summer and fall, and we have around twenty-one production hives and a couple of nuc size colonies going into winter.
 
#471 ·
Strange that you would post this David. Been back down in the "Ark-La-Tex" for about a week now and noticed this years Goldenrod phenomena as well. I'm usually here a week or so later when its mostly bloomed out and was thinking about posing the question to you about its late season flow potential. I've seen aggressive behavior when bees are on a flow but the conditions aren't quite right for flight so I'll take the flow potential as a definite maybe. Forecast for good flying weather dosent look particularly optimistic so, perhaps, its a moot point anyway.
Btw, glad to hear your recovery is going well.
 
#473 · (Edited)
For me, a beehive consists of a bottom board, eight-frame medium hive boxes, twenty-four foundationless frames (placed in the bottom three hive boxes), frames with plastic foundation with standard size cells (placed in the fourth and higher hive boxes which function as honey supers), a metal queen excluder placed above the third hive box, an inner cover with an approximately 2" hole in the center and a ⅜" by 1" notch in the upper front rim for ventilation, and a telescoping outer cover. The bottom board has a ⅜” rim on top (which makes the entrance ⅜” high by about 13½” wide). In my location with my bees, this prevents rodents from entering the hives in winter, is defensible, and is not overly crowded during flows. The bottom rim of the bottom board is roughly 1½” high. I purchase frames, but the other equipment is handmade from cedar and unpainted. The decking of the bottom boards and outer covers is cedar. The decking of the inner covers is thin scrap luann or interior plywood. The outer covers are covered with aluminum flashing. Construction is with Titebond II and staples, with screws for any repairs to honey supers. I use welded metal hive stands about fourteen inches high and about ten feet long.

I place the queen excluders above the third box and remove them or place them above the top hive box in winter to avoid isolating the queen from the warmth of the cluster. My bees are derived from local, generally frugal, feral stock, and they winter in three or sometimes four eight frame medium boxes with no supplemental feeding.
 
#475 · (Edited)
When I walk from the truck to the hives, two of the things I carry are a cast aluminum frame grabber like this: www.amazon.com/Frame-Grip-Holder-Be...4905&sr=8-9#HLCXComparisonWidget_feature_div;

and a stainless steel hive tool like this: www.amazon.com/KINGLAKE-Beekeepers-...G5FZFH2W137&psc=1&refRID=DPR39QY8MG5FZFH2W137.

I spray paint them with hi-vis fluorescent yellow paint.

Right now they’re both sitting on top of a hive at one of my bee yards because they’ll stay but they don’t heel.
 
#479 ·
Right now they’re both sitting on top of a hive at one of my bee yards because they’ll stay but they don’t heel.
Sorry to hear, hope you get better soon.

Your messages are like a crossword puzzle for a person not speaking english as mother language.
I can imagine the blink in your eyes. Laughter and humor makes one live longer.
 
#483 · (Edited)
Fundamentally, pulling honey is identifying the supers that have cured honey, getting bees out of those supers, moving those supers to the extracting area, and decapping, extracting, and bottling the honey. Making each of those steps as amusing and painless as practical is important.

Identifying the supers that have cured honey is, for me, mostly about identifying the supers that don’t have cured honey. The afternoon before the pull, smoke each hive to be checked and any nearby hives, pop the cover, smoke ‘em a little from the top and wait a few moments. Loosen the top box; feel its weight; if it’s heavy enough, pull a frame from the middle and one or two nearer a side; glance down into the super at the comb on the frames still in the super on either side of the pulled frames.

In my hives, if the top boxes are full and capped, the lower supers above the queen excluder are ready. Smoke the bees down, put any supers from the top that aren’t ready to extract above queen excluder (that is, above the brood and food chamber), put a bee escape board on, put the boxes with cured honey above the escape board, put the inner and outer covers back on, proceed to the next hive till done, and leave ‘em overnight. As you pull away, glance back to see the outer cover that you left off and the frame grabber and hive tool that you forgot. Hopefully, we stop by the gas station and top off the truck’s tank so we don’t have to do it with the honey supers and associated bee stragglers the next day.
 
#484 · (Edited)
Ideally, the next morning we wear double pants. (Bees like it when you are in their hive two days in a row and take boxes full of their preciously gathered honey.) We grab commercial aluminum bun/baking pans just larger than our medium bee boxes. We use five of these as bases on which to stack the supers in the back of the truck and a couple as temporary covers to keep bees out of the supers as we stack them. We take five outer covers to cover the stacks once they’re topped out. We take a (hopefully) well tuned Husqvarna leaf blower with a full tank of fresh pre-mixed, “canned” gas. We bring a smoker, smoker fuel, a propane torch with an automatic igniter, hive tools, bee brushes, BeeQuick and fume board (just in case), a couple of sodas, and ibuprofen. The smoker and the blower are kept away from each other in the back of the truck, even when the smoker’s not lit. Ideally, we dress out with cuff straps, jacket and veil, and have our gloves at hand before we head to the bee yard so we know we didn’t forget them and so we can park the truck close to the hives and shorten the distance we have to haul the supers. We try not to bring things that we don’t need.

At the bee yard, we leave the keys in the truck ignition, light the smoker, and smoke all the hives before cranking up the leaf blower. We pull the supers quickly, blow off stragglers and cover the stacked supers with bun pans as we go. When stacks are topped off, we replace the top pans with outer covers, grab the bee escapes, double check that the covers are back on the hives and the tools are in the truck, and roll to the next yard.

On the way back to the shop/Honey House, we text the ladies who comprise the bottling, marketing, and canteen departments of this vast enterprise. We back up close to the shop, fire up the blower to remove stragglers from the supers, stack the boxes inside, shut the doors, spray around the outside of the door with BeeQuick, move the decapping, extracting, and bottling equipment into place, change out of protective garb, and eat lunch.
 
#486 ·
I want frugal bees that winter well with small clusters. I don’t want to feed them in the fall to artificially cause them to produce more brood going in to winter. In order for Varroa to reproduce, they need their host bees to reproduce. If there is little or no bee brood going in to winter, then there is little or no opportunity for Varroa mites to breed. (There may also be a detrimental effect on the phoretic female mites caused by overcrowding in the few cells available for breeding.) This causes the mite population to decline as the older mites die off, hopefully (and over time due to natural selection, necessarily), at rates exceeding the rates at which the bees die off. Natural selection rewards colonies with frugal winter bees that outlive the phoretic winter mites.
 
#490 ·
Short answer, nothing. Long answer, in the past I would try to prevent the formation of a solid honey dome directly above the brood by checkerboarding or by undersupering/nadiring or placing a box of empty drawn comb directly above the brood over a queen excluder. I no longer do that. As for checkerboarding in the brood area itself (as opposed to the honey dome directly over the brood area), I don’t believe that has any swarm reducing effect, at least for my bees.

I do sometimes make early spring splits, but that tends to be for husbandry purposes or “herd improvement” rather than swarm control. My funny little mutts are, surprisingly, not particularly swarmy, probably due at least in part to the effect of mites on their population.

I have two principal beeyards these days. (I do keep a couple of hives each at a couple of other places.) At one of those principal yards, I have placed swarm traps from 200 to 400 yards away, and very rarely have I captured swarms. Those colonies do cast swarms, but not at the rate that you would expect. At the other principal yard I have a number of traps from ¼ to ¾ of a mile away, and I do catch a number of swarms, but no more than I was catching there before I began keeping bees at that yard.

By taking an occasional early spring split, and by not treating bees and thus causing them to have to divert resources to hygienic behavior and other mite fighting efforts and considering the downward pressure that mites exert on the population in an untreated colony, I just haven’t felt the need lately to try to reduce swarming by manipulating the honey dome. You do ask perceptive questions. You should be a journalist or a panelist on What’s My Line.
 
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