Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017 - Page 23
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  1. #441
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    We have a stack of little wooden four frame medium nuc boxes in one or our bee yards. Can you guess what happened?
    David Matlock

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  3. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    We have a stack of little wooden four frame medium nuc boxes in one or our bee yards. Can you guess what happened?
    A whole nest of Cottonmouths took up residence inside? 😉

  4. #443
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    And to think, I was going to say somethimg stupid like, "you caught a swarm". I like Russ' answer way better.

    But just in case stupid is as stupid does, I have been out collecting my swarm traps and stacking them in the apiary. Even giving them a Qtip of LGO. Late swarms here are not uncommon and last year's softball sized ball of bees made it through winter.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  5. #444
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    "you caught a swarm".
    Yep.
    David Matlock

  6. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    Even giving them a Qtip of LGO.
    Great reminder, JW. Based on your reply, I went ahead and re-addressed the two remaining bait hives I have out just in case.

  7. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    Yep.
    Good on you, BTW. River. Was it a good sized swarm? Do you surmise it was from one of your colonies?

  8. #447
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post
    Good on you, BTW. River. Was it a good sized swarm? Do you surmise it was from one of your colonies?
    I don’t know the size of it because I’m waiting a couple of weeks until my fracture is a little more healed. But it’s most likely small. I don’t think that I left frames in it, so it will be a mess. It’s likely from one of my hives, but I was catching wild swarms where it is before it was a beeyard, so it may be truly feral. Although, I don’t think that you could slide a piece of paper between the feral genes in that area and the genes of my bees.

    I’ll likely just add two little four frame supers with some drawn frames and let ‘em fill it with goldenrod and aster. Hope they move up. But the comb is probably attached to the bottom of the box that’s on top of it, so, like I said, it’ll be a mess. There’s something about me that wants to see little swarms make it. I’ll probably put a lot of thought and effort into saving a softball size colony. But something in me acts like they just might be the hygienic, allogrooming, mite chompin’, virus resistant bees I’m lookin’ for.

    It’s not the only deferred maintenance in the beeyard right now. I’ve got a couple of swarm traps and/or nucs that need to be hived and at least one colony in a swarm trap that’s still on a tree. Those all have frames and will likely get hived before winter.
    Last edited by Riverderwent; 09-07-2019 at 09:41 PM.
    David Matlock

  9. #448
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Sorry to hear about your misfortune and hoping you have a full recovery. Sounds like its been an interesting summer down there David. I'm starting to look forward to a little dose of Air-la-tex myself. Btw, what type of honey do you feel you extracted in your Labor Day harvest? Didn't think much went on down there after early June tallow.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  10. #449
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    Although, I don’t think that you could slide a piece of paper between the feral genes in that area and the genes of my bees.

    But something in me acts like they just might be the hygienic, allogrooming, mite chompin’, virus resistant bees I’m lookin’ for.
    Good for you, David. I imagine this is what we are all looking for- glad they are coming to you.

  11. #450
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Btw, what type of honey do you feel you extracted in your Labor Day harvest? Didn't think much went on down there after early June tallow.
    You’re spot on. It is tallow honey that had been in the hives since the end of June. And thank you for the well wishes. I’m grateful it wasn’t worse. My bicycle helmet was cracked (I’m glad I wear one), and I was very briefly out of it. The life of a sportsman/adventurer is tough.
    David Matlock

  12. #451
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Fairly frequently I read, from experts as well grounded as Randy Oliver and drones in their comets, that the solution to the varroa problem will not come from small time folks, but may by necessity only come from the hands of large commercial queen breeders. The discovery of the recombination of traits that macerates varroa is more likely to come from the corner of one of the non-treaters, and the hoards comprising their secret army, feral bees, than from the well and goodly treated, if partially fertilized ladies of the scions of large scale queen production. Ah, but distribution, that’s the issue some might think, or say, or blog. But distribution is never the issue. The amazing power of multiplication makes distribution foregone once word of the solution is out there. Most likely it will happen so quickly, that the whence will be lost in the whither, and it will seem to have come from a hundred places at once, seemingly simultaneously. And the news will flatten “the Earth and the Cassinis.”
    Last edited by Riverderwent; 09-09-2019 at 11:57 PM.
    David Matlock

  13. #452
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    Fairly frequently I read, from experts as well grounded as Randy Oliver and drones in their comets, that the solution to the varroa problem will not come from small time folks, but may by necessity only come from the hands of large commercial queen breeders. The discovery of the recombination of traits that macerates varroa is more likely to come from the corner of one of the non-treaters, and the hoards comprising their secret army, feral bees, than from the well and goodly treated, if partially fertilized ladies of the scions of large scale queen production. Ah, but distribution, that’s the issue some might think, or say, or blog. But distribution is never the issue. The amazing power of multiplication makes distribution foregone once word of the solution is out there. Most likely it will happen so quickly, that the whence will be lost in the whither, and it will seem to have come from a hundred places at once, seemingly simultaneously. And the news will flatten “the Earth and the Cassinis.”
    Interesting perspective. I wish I could share this optimism but the fact that bee matings are polyamorous make me less optimistic. To duplicate the traits that happen rarely and by chance seems to me to be almost unattainable. Add in the fact that we are also fighting a battle against a constantly evolving foe that is vectoring new viruses makes it all the harder. Select, select, select and we have years where it seems like no progress is being made at all. Sigh....
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  14. #453
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    riverderwent
    Most likely it will happen so quickly, that the whence will be lost in the whither, and it will seem to have come from a hundred places at once, seemingly simultaneously.
    How did it happen with tracheal mite? Was it through the breeders or through the bees that it came about?
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  15. #454
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by gww View Post
    riverderwent

    How did it happen with tracheal mite? Was it through the breeders or through the bees that it came about?
    Cheers
    gww
    Trachael was (is) kind of stealthy. Not easy to diagnose and not much in the way of treating options. . We never did anything and before we knew it varroa showed up and rightly or wrongly people just quit worrying about trachael.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  16. #455
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by gww View Post
    riverderwent

    How did it happen with tracheal mite? Was it through the breeders or through the bees that it came about?
    Cheers
    gww
    Both. Breeders such as Brother Adam and others produced tracheal mite resistant bees, these were passed around, and the disease just seemed to vanish from the rest of the population. Bees such as British AMM's that were highly susceptable became virtually extinct, and other breeds with natural immunity took their place. At that time for example, British bees were dying in droves, and a whole industry of sending packaged swarms of resistant AMM's from France, to Britain sprung up, to replace them.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  17. #456
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    jim and oldtimer
    Thanks for the history lesson.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  18. #457
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Interesting perspective. I wish I could share this optimism but the fact that bee matings are polyamorous make me less optimistic. To duplicate the traits that happen rarely and by chance seems to me to be almost unattainable. Add in the fact that we are also fighting a battle against a constantly evolving foe that is vectoring new viruses makes it all the harder. Select, select, select and we have years where it seems like no progress is being made at all. Sigh....
    Jim, you’ve forgotten more than I’ll likely ever know about bees. This is just my perspective from the vantage of being tucked away on the edge of one of, if not the, largest inland wetlands in the U.S. Here, feral bees (and only feral bees) seem to have the numbers and the ubiquity needed to overcome the obstacles you’ve mentioned within a timeframe that I will see. I am optimistic, I concede, but optimism (mixed with gratitude) is the reasonable reaction to what I’ve experienced in life.
    David Matlock

  19. #458
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    I figure out how much honey the bees that live in my hives need for winter and how much space they need for that amount of honey, plus pollen and brood. In my location, for my frugal bees, that is three eight frame medium boxes for most of my colonies. Except in winter, I leave a queen excluder above that third box. Everything below the excluder is theirs and it stays theirs all year round. Everything above the excluder is for me.

    Since I always leave the bees enough honey, I don’t feed them sugar water. On the rare occasions when a cutout or startup colony needs supplemental food, they get frames of honey from above the third box from another healthy hive. Others will disagree, of course, but I believe that keeping sugar water out of the hives causes the honey to be more flavorful. Others will also disagree, of course, but I believe that my not feeding sugar water has contributed to my bees being able to survive without my using miticides in the hive.
    David Matlock

  20. #459
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    For me, genetic vitality, including varroa resistance and tolerance, is a matter of geography rather than individual colonies. Success comes from the trajectory of the combined genetic outcome from feral and managed bees across a swath of real estate. If I have contributed positively to that trajectory, it is from pushing positive genetic material into the territorial milieu, not from propagating and hanging onto a few resistant colonies. Broader success can come from a gradual expansion of the territory encompassed by that vigorous pool.
    David Matlock

  21. #460
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    Others will also disagree, of course, but I believe that my not feeding sugar water has contributed to my bees being able to survive without my using miticides in the hive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    If I have contributed positively to that trajectory, it is from pushing positive genetic material into the territorial milieu, not from propagating and hanging onto a few resistant colonies. Broader success can come from a gradual expansion of the territory encompassed by that vigorous pool.
    David:

    Good posts. I always enjoy reading your evaluations of the mechanisms at work in your successful efforts to keep bees without treatments because you are always looking beyond just the individual colonies or yards and attempting to discern the larger forces at work contributing to the success.

    Beyond this, I can also appreciate how your efforts to align your beekeeping with natural bee dynamics (i.e. no sugar water) help to promote survival.

    If nothing else, it might be considered good stewardship that you are practicing to help promote the health and vitality of the greater bee population at-large in your area.

    Thanks again for your posts.

    Russ

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