Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017 - Page 26
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  1. #501
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    “To dream the impossible dream”
    David Matlock

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  3. #502
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Yesterday, I removed the last of the queen excluders from my hives. The temperature was 78 degrees.
    David Matlock

  4. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    Yesterday, I removed the last of the queen excluders from my hives. The temperature was 78 degrees.
    Sounds like it is really getting cold down there, David...

    Feliz Navidad
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  5. #504
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    I didn’t go very deep into the hives when I was removing the excluders, but the temperature was warm, and the bees’ activity levels were nevertheless low. That reminded me how small (and frugal) the winter populations of these colonies are. That got me thinking that the Varroa infestation rate should be high — unless the dying bees are altruistically leaving the hive and forcing their parasitic cargo to either take a one way trip or debark and risk being mauled by the likes of Perdue bees.
    David Matlock

  6. #505
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post
    Felix Navidad
    Nollaig Chridheil, mi amigo.
    David Matlock

  7. #506
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    ...unless the dying bees are altruistically leaving the hive and forcing their parasitic cargo to either take a one way trip or debark and risk being mauled by the likes of Perdue bees.
    From the perspective of the mite, neither option sounds very appealing. Best of success to your overwintering efforts this year.
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  8. #507
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post
    From the perspective of the mite, neither option sounds very appealing. Best of success to your overwintering efforts this year.
    Same to you. I generally expect the worst, and I have continued to be pleasantly surprised come March. There is a lot of honey in the hives by my standards (particularly relative to the small clusters). Almost no flowers blooming except for the occasional sparse stand of tired little asters. Some years we have random dandelions blooming at this time. Not enough to make much difference of course, but interesting to see.
    David Matlock

  9. #508
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    Same to you. I generally expect the worst...
    Thank you, David. I sincerely appreciate it. I subscribe Benjamin Disraeli's ubiquitous quip that, “I am prepared for the worst, but hope for the best.”
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  10. #509
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    So talk of introducing laying queens got me thinking. I introduce laying queens by the most gradual method I know which is to stay out of the hive as much as reasonably practical and allow the bees to supersede themselves as they see fit. Of course, bees don’t “see fit”; the do what they do based on “an instinct akin to reason.”

    Anyway, that got me thinking about why other folks requeen as they do which, and here I’m speculating because I’m not, by definition, other folks, is because they want to maximize their per hive production. But I don’t think about it “per hive”. I look at a beeyard and my time and resources in that beeyard as a production unit, not at an individual hive or the colony in that hive. It’s like the cattleman who says, “I don’t raise cows; I raise grass. The cows eat it, and I sell ‘em.” They’re looking at the maximum production per acre (or, more accurately, per their available time and resources), so to speak, not per steer or cow.

    So what that means is that a cattleman might be better off (and perhaps happier) investing the same time and resources and selling five grass fed one thousand pound Dexter steers to make a $20,000 profit than selling one 2,000 pound, corn fed whiteface steer for a $10,000 profit. Of course, that depends on the individual and their model. So you be you, and I’ll be me, and I’ll see you in church on Sunday.

    Now how does that translate to a beeyard. Well, if I’ve got a beeyard that’ll support $3,000 worth of profit, and I can get that by keeping a dozen modest hives with relatively little work, losing and adding a couple of colonies each year, while increasing the genetic quality of the herd, or by keeping six big colonies with more medication and manipulation, that seldom fail, I’m gonna choose the former, if it makes me happier. Others won’t. Anyway, that’s about why I let the bees introduce their own new laying queens.
    David Matlock

  11. #510
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    So talk of introducing laying queens got me thinking. I introduce laying queens by the most gradual method I know which is to stay out of the hive as much as reasonably practical and allow the bees to supersede themselves as they see fit.

    Now how does that translate to a beeyard. Well, if I’ve got a beeyard that’ll support $3,000 worth of profit, and I can get that by keeping a dozen modest hives with relatively little work, losing and adding a couple of colonies each year, while increasing the genetic quality of the herd, or by keeping six big colonies with more medication and manipulation, that seldom fail, I’m gonna choose the former, if it makes me happier. Others won’t. Anyway, that’s about why I let the bees introduce their own new laying queens.
    David, I would agree. If a certain strain or Hive "cannot" supersede then I am concerned. If I were to re queen every year for some per hive production model this is a non issue. I however tend to let the bees be bees. I want the ability for bees to fix a queen issue on their own. We all have opened a hive to find them hopelessly queen less. I prefer to not find very many. IMO the grafting and queen rearing in "some" comercial queen operations "Can" render this trait out of the gene pool. if 8 or 10 generations of bees were grafted then the "attempt" at raising their own queen has not been tested in a long while. I do at times order Queens to bring in some fresh material, but would way rather the locally adapted stock be used to create increase and re queen themselves. It is a balance to maintain Vigor, survivability, and profitability.
    GG

  12. #511
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    We all have opened a hive to find them hopelessly queen less. I prefer to not find very many.
    I really haven’t in several years since I stopped opening hives and rolling queens. Of course, if I’m not in it, I’m not seeing them when they’re queenless; I’m just seeing a deadout. But any deadouts I see are most likely from mites not from dragonflies or birds eating a queen on a mating flight. Anyway, queenlessness is not something I’ve seen much except when I’m pretty sure I caused it.
    David Matlock

  13. #512
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    I want the ability for bees to fix a queen issue on their own.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    Anyway, queenlessness is not something I’ve seen much except when I’m pretty sure I caused it.
    Gents:

    Good discussion. Reminded me of a talk I heard Roger Patterson give at the National Honey Show and accompanying article:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wrW_04iJ_c

    http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/rogerpatterson.html
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  14. #513
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    IMO the grafting and queen rearing in "some" comercial queen operations "Can" render this trait out of the gene pool. if 8 or 10 generations of bees were grafted then the "attempt" at raising their own queen has not been tested in a long while.
    Gray, that is a fascinating thought, particularly if there were uninterrupted, multigenerational artificially inseminated queens. I would think that queens from local feral bees would have a genetic edge on the finer points of returning home safely and successfully from their nuptial adventures.
    David Matlock

  15. #514
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    Gray, that is a fascinating thought, particularly if there were uninterrupted, multigenerational artificially inseminated queens. I would think that queens from local feral bees would have a genetic edge on the finer points of returning home safely and successfully from their nuptial adventures.
    David, exactly my point. you do not find many because you likely do not buy queens. I have picked up 10 or so packages in the last 4 years, they all end up queen less or winter dead out. many I have seen with no queen and cells built, then still no queen, so the "attempt" failed some do not even attempt, or the queen was on break and passed.
    In the wild any "tree" failing to requeen is basically dead. they get replaced by a swarm perhaps in the next or even same year but the bees that are poor at requeening do not really last in the wild. However one of those type queens could be grafted from, F1s F2s etc.

    On a side note My kids all were taken C-Section, either their heads were too big or Moms birth canal was to small. " long stressed labor, OK let's cut them out" I was there for both. So In a pure nature, or 3000 years ago, it is likely neither child would have made it and maybe mom would have not made it either. Many females died in or around child birth. So large heads and/or small birth canals were "trimmed" from the gene pool. Today as long as medicine stays as is, or better, those two traits are likely to expand, for obvious reasons they can and do survive and will reproduce.

    With the queens being grafted for several generations we may or may not be influencing "traits" that grafting would allow.
    Ability to properly to supersede could be 1 of several.

    GG

  16. #515
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Merry Christmas!
    David Matlock

  17. #516
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    Merry Christmas!
    Merry Christmas, David. Here is sincerely hoping that this year to come is prosperous to overabundance for you and your family.

    Russ
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  18. #517
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Thank you!
    David Matlock

  19. #518
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    This thing I do is do all I can to avoid unnecessary stress to the bees that live in my hives. Most manipulations kill at least a few bees. They also interrupt their daily comings, goings, and hangings aroundings. Things as minor as an alcohol wash of half a cup of bees to ten colonies add up. Pests take advantage of stress to their prey. First do no harm.
    David Matlock

  20. #519
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Primum non nocere is really good advice. Goes real well with the idea that sometimes the best thing to do is nothing.

    One of the reasons that I use the DDC after performing a treatment, oops, a dirty word here, instead of the alcohol wash is that 1/2 cup of bees times 24 colonies equals 12 cups of bees, or the equivalent of an entire package. Not to mention the possibility of accidentally scooping up her majesty and unceremoniously dumping her in a a jar of alcohol. Not a good idea at any time, and a death knell for a hive in the winter.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  21. #520
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    Primum non nocere is really good advice. Goes real well with the idea that sometimes the best thing to do is nothing.
    Last edited by Riverderwent; 12-30-2019 at 11:01 AM.
    David Matlock

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