Ninja-level creative electric fence invention question
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  1. #1
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    Default Ninja-level creative electric fence invention question

    I've been very happy with my fence setup, and troubleshooting it over the years has gotten me to a fair level of skill in how they work. Now I'm having a brainstorm and need to see if I'm crazy. Bear with me .

    OK so this is for a set of hanging rabbit cages. They're all wire, and can hang from cables anchored with insulators. The cages would be the "fence" or energized portion of this setup. Anything standing on the ground that touches them would get a hit, just like it would completing the circuit of a bear fence like I use now. Follow?

    Question is: would the pulses have ANY effect on the cages or their occupants? Either during normal use (just pulses harmlessly not connecting to ground) or when a bear nose or raccoon paw makes a connection? I'm thinking that since they're NOT touching the ground, there shouldn't be any way they'd get zapped right?
    Bees, brews and fun
    in Lyons, CO

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Ninja-level creative electric fence invention question

    The cages would have no effect on the occupants whether the fencer was idling or actually zapping something touching the cages and grounding.

    Do a search on "Faraday Cage". You will find lots of goofy stuff comparing them to tinfoil hats, but they have been used practically by workers on live high tension lines. The cages can be used to either keep radiated field inside or to keep it out. Look at the mesh embedded in the window of your microwave!
    Frank

  4. #3
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    Default Re: Ninja-level creative electric fence invention question

    A complete box, except open at the bottom, would have a measurable effect I could read with instruments. Electric fields around a point source fall off by inverse square law. Electric fields around a fence wire ought to fall off linearly with distance. But the full mesh fence cage approximates a plane and I expect a fairly uniform electric field in it.

    EMP tests are done using a box open on its sides. The box I'm describing is only open at the bottom. The EMP tests I've seen run charge the sides of the apparatus with a 30 kV pulse. One of my fences hits 13 kV, the other 7.5 kV. So they're not as bad as a mil-spec EMP test, but it might be a bad place to store electronics.

    If I'm reading this wrong and this "cage" lacks a top (most rabbit cages I've seen have a top), then this will make a less uniform electric field.

    Living things? Dunno. There may be some subtle effects. I doubt it is out-right deadly.

    I will note that cattle fence panels, which are a heavy wire mesh, could be rigged to behave like this (although they are not usually equipped with a cover. And those are used pretty commonly. Mesh fences do load a fence charger a lot more per foot of fence than wire does. They've got more area to induce current in nearby objects and the ground.

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Ninja-level creative electric fence invention question

    Phoebee; my wifes bike speedometer reads 8 kilometers an hour when brought within about 10 feet of our fencer! We have a horse who seems to use her nose whiskers like a well witcher and knows whether the fencer is on, so there could be some subtle effect on rabbits in such a cage system. They would not be getting zapped though, would they?
    Frank

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Ninja-level creative electric fence invention question

    No, the rabbits inside the cages would not be harmed, however, the cages would have to be constructed in such a way that solid electrical connection is made between top, sides, and bottom. Of some importance is that the target - whether bear or raccoon would have to physically touch the ground and the cage at the same time to be shocked. If the ground is very dry, it won't work very well.
    NW Alabama, 50 years, 20 colonies and growing, sideliner, treatment free since 2005, 14 frame square Dadant broodnest

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Ninja-level creative electric fence invention question

    Give it a try. Put ole Fluffy in there and energize. You'll know soon enough if it works or not. If not, leave it on until Fluffy is tender and service with carrots, potatoes and gravy.

  8. #7
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    Default Re: Ninja-level creative electric fence invention question

    These are galvanized, welded-wire panels and each cage is a cube with panel on all six sides (sides plus floor and roof). I've been assuming that the occupants would not be energized, but my knowledge of electricity is limited to elementary household wiring and bear fencing. Would there be a way to test this? Put a multi-meter's probes at rabbit length apart on the bear fence without grounding and see if there's potential?
    Bees, brews and fun
    in Lyons, CO

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Ninja-level creative electric fence invention question

    Same theory as when a bird lands on a power line. Since they are not completing a circuit, there is no electrical potential. There will never be electrical potential in your scenario except for the brief instance where another animal had come along and completed the circuit to ground and gets zapped. Even then, the chances of poor connections between the panels being enough to create an electrical potential between the sides and the bottom, and the rabbit touching both at the same time, are pretty much nil. If there was some stray electrical potential, it isn't going to hurt the rabbit. Electric fences are not designed to be lethal, even at their full strength.
    Working beeyards at 7700' elevation in Ponderosa pine forest.
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  10. #9
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    Default Re: Ninja-level creative electric fence invention question

    Your theory that the animals in the cages would not get electrocuted is true.

    Don't like this idea very much but there aren't any bears here so who am I to judge?
    Ask some PETA members what they think.
    Internet credibility is an oxymoron

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Ninja-level creative electric fence invention question

    Quote Originally Posted by aunt betty View Post
    Your theory that the animals in the cages would not get electrocuted is true.

    Don't like this idea very much but there aren't any bears here so who am I to judge?
    Ask some PETA members what they think.
    I'm a member of the other PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals, and I approve this contraption.

    The rabbit will be unharmed. The bear and raccoon will also be unharmed, though their little paws or nose might sting for a bit.

  12. #11
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    Default Re: Ninja-level creative electric fence invention question

    As long as it is a full cage on all sides, what is inside should be fine.

    My misunderstanding was picturing an open bottom so they was a potential difference top to bottom. That's where the cage would start having an EMP-like behavior.

  13. #12
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    Default Re: Ninja-level creative electric fence invention question

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Brewcat View Post
    Would there be a way to test this? Put a multi-meter's probes at rabbit length apart on the bear fence without grounding and see if there's potential?
    You need to get yourself a rabbit ear antenna! Or just put the rabbit in and try it. Don't notify PETA about the upcoming test!
    Frank

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Ninja-level creative electric fence invention question

    Most multimeters have too low an input impedance to test this effectively, a mere ten million ohms or so. Some of the better ones have much higher input impedance.

    The electrometer I have sitting on a shelf behind me could do it.

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