Just how dangerous is Apivar? - Page 2
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
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    Nampa, Idaho
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    57

    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    Well, that was interesting.

    Thanks to those of you who gave helpful replies. I think now I will be comfortable using this stuff as directed.

    A more natural treatment scheme is a goal of mine, but right now I have some mites to kill and little time to fool with it. BTW, I tried a more natural treatment previously (hopgaurd 2) and suspect, though I can't prove, that it may have been the cause of one hive going queenless this spring until I rescued it with eggs & brood from another colony. I'm way at the bottom of this learning curve, I admit. Just my second year and three hives, with no loss so far.....trying to keep it that way as much as possible.

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    5,486

    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    I use the easy tear tab on the packages to open them.... I try to wear gloves when handling but it's 50/50.

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Boonville, Indiana,USA
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    176

    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    I keep around 100 hives. I have never treated with any chemicals and my hive losses each year are under 10%. Some of those losses can be attributed to small amount of bees (should of combined and didn't) and not enough honey store to get through winter. Should I treat?

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Hermitage, PA
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    209

    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    Quote Originally Posted by ilikebs View Post
    Should I treat?
    For what?

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Hermitage, PA
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    209

    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    Quote Originally Posted by sarahsbees View Post
    One of the ways I heard it described was this. Make your hand into a fist. Then put it anywhere on your body. That's how big a varroa mite is to a bee. And it's sucking your bee's blood and crawling into larvae and weakening baby bees so they can't survive. So even without the "it might kill your hive" factor, there's still the compassion towards knowing that something horrible like that is happening to an animal you care about.
    Can't help but wonder if, in some parallel universe, there aren't "keepers" desperately trying to improve the survival rates of their beloved Varroa mites. After all, it's simply a matter of perspective that determines which animals we love and care for, and which we mercilessly kill with poison, fire, and blunt force!

  7. #26
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Vernon, AZ. USA
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    627

    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sickdog5 View Post
    Just saying how did bees ever survive without us? They were probably a lot better off. I haven't treated mine yet and not sure yet if i am going to. I have been only doing this for about 6months now.
    Good luck with that T F thing. You will be fine if there are no varroa mites near you. It's possible.
    Wow 6 months a beek. Wow.

    Good luck with that T F self-righteousness, too. You'll make friends with that, for sure.

    I have hives that are 7 years T F. I'm not cheering for what you seem to think is the devil of beekeeping. You shouldn't either, in some areas you'll achieve 90% losses if T F.

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Fultonville,New York,USA
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    711

    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    Quote Originally Posted by jadebees View Post
    Good luck with that T F thing. You will be fine if there are no varroa mites near you. It's possible.
    Wow 6 months a beek. Wow.

    Good luck with that T F self-righteousness, too. You'll make friends with that, for sure.
    Yea 6 months. I am sure you were new once. Who is being self-righteous. All i said was i am not sure if i am going to treat or not. If i don't treat what do you care?

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Aberdeen, Idaho
    Posts
    1,148

    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    Treat or not?? Your mite bombs will take out how many other hives in the process of crashing? Some treatment free people succeed, the vast majority do not. The treatment free ideology has caused the demise of how many hives? Oh I love the comments made by others that have seen successful treatment free hives and describe them as dinks waiting to die.

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,922

    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    Treating is failing and all they can do is blame people who aren't treating... why not admit it doesn't work?
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    34,541

    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    Michael Bush, how is your hive count these days? Had any ups and downs in colony count this past year or two?
    Mark Berninghausen

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    Suffolk Co, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    Treating is failing and all they can do is blame people who aren't treating... why not admit it doesn't work?
    I hope those reading this statement realize just how ridiculous it is.

  13. #32
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    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    >Michael Bush, how is your hive count these days? Had any ups and downs in colony count this past year or two?

    Just the steady decline of negligence. No ups and downs. Beekeeping takes time and I haven't had time. If the propaganda on treating was right then all my bees were dead back in 2003. But they are not. Here are some of my "struggling" untreated colonies:
    http://www.bushfarms.com/images/BeeC...esInTheAir.jpg
    http://www.bushfarms.com/images/BeeCamp2016/Bees1.jpg

    And that's after they all swarmed the first week of May. That was a week later.
    http://www.bushfarms.com/images/BeeCamp2016/Swarm6.jpg
    http://www.bushfarms.com/images/BeeCamp2016/Swarm1.jpg
    http://www.bushfarms.com/images/BeeCamp2016/Swarm2.jpg
    http://www.bushfarms.com/images/BeeCamp2016/Swarm3.jpg

    >I hope those reading this statement realize just how ridiculous it is.

    If not treating is such a disaster then the statistics would show a several hundred fold difference, or at least a two or three fold difference between treating and not treating. Reality is, leaving everything else out of the equation, there is not very much difference at all and some years the non-treaters have higher survival rates and some years they have slightly less. Then to explain this, the treaters blame their losses on those not treating to explain why there is no really significant difference. I hope they realize how ridiculous it is for people to blame other people who don't buy their view of the world for the fact that their view of the world isn't working.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  14. #33
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Champaign, Illinois
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    2,461

    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    I take the time and have such low losses that all I can say is "take the time".
    The numbers.
    I've lost four from a start-up of two packages and about 20 cutouts or swarms. Built them up to around 48-ish at this time. I bought six hundred pounds of sugar last year in September and October. It sure paid off. There's more to keeping bees than just having them. 40# of pollen patties kicked off the spring.

    The ones I lost were the two packages, a TF top bar, and one I screwed up and made queenless for grafting at the exact wrong time. It got SHB'ed, absconded, then got robbed out.

    Have TF neighbors and you'll never hear me blaming anyone for my losses unless a crop-duster hits and then I'll be screaming bloody murder.
    Internet credibility is an oxymoron

  15. #34
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    Jun 2012
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    Suffolk Co, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post

    If not treating is such a disaster then the statistics would show a several hundred fold difference, or at least a two or three fold difference between treating and not treating. Reality is, leaving everything else out of the equation, there is not very much difference at all and some years the non-treaters have higher survival rates and some years they have slightly less. Then to explain this, the treaters blame their losses on those not treating to explain why there is no really significant difference. I hope they realize how ridiculous it is for people to blame other people who don't buy their view of the world for the fact that their view of the world isn't working.
    I hope those reading your response realize how utterly ridiculous it is.

  16. #35
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    Feb 2012
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    Colorado Springs, CO United States
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    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    Then to explain this, the treaters blame their losses on those not treating to explain why there is no really significant difference..
    Some do blame the treatment itself
    Please excuse me, I am now free to go manage & treat ;)
    my ladies the best way I know how.

  17. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Wayne, WV, USA
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    232

    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    Yet another thread hijacked into a polemical debate. One poor beekeeper asks a simple question about Apivar and now, this?!

    I can't answer the OP because I haven't used Apivar (yet).
    "The amazing thing about the honey bee is not that she works, but that she works for others." St. John Chrysostom

  18. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
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    9,340

    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    Quote Originally Posted by B Steve B View Post
    So, I am treating with this product and following the label - but the warning has me scratching my head. I see instructive material with photos of leather gloved beekeepers supposedly applying Apivar, but the label say to use chemical proof gloves. It also says absorption through skin can be fatal. I used the chemical proof gloves and outerwear are in the wash. But I also handled scissors to open the package and the hive tool, as usual, with those same gloves on after handling the strips. Do I need to put on another pair of gloves to wash the tools? Why the "possibly fatal" warning when all the hype is about how safe this stuff is?
    I wear Chem gloves to avoid the exposure. Handling the product all day for a week or more is a lot of exposure to me and my guys.
    Do not handle the product with bee gloves. Chem absorbes into the leather

    When they claim "safe" for the bees they mean there are no short term problems associated with the treatment. Long term implications are debatable, studdy has proven harmful, I feel short term needs are sometimes needed to buy time to find alternatives. And many are in the works

  19. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Deerfield, Illinois
    Posts
    406

    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    You have raised a very good point that is often minimized by bee keepers. These chemicals including OA are very dangerous to your health. That is why it is so important to follow instructions. I am not a commercial bee keeper, and they have no economic choice and have to use whatever chemicals they need. As a hobby bee keeper I have decided my health is more important than my bees so I do not use any toxic chemicals. It won't be long before many beekeepers who didn't follow label instructions will start to have some very serious life threatening health problems. There are always comments about chemicals being used for other reasons but they are in different formulas and strengths and have different licensing and legal requirements. We each can make our own decisions but don't assume the label is incorrect.

  20. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
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    9,340

    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    >>As a hobby bee keeper I have decided my health is more important than my bees<<

    But if you follow all the safety procedures your health concerns should be satisfied

  21. #40
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Champaign, Illinois
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    2,461

    Default Re: Just how dangerous is Apivar?

    Re-read the OP and one of the questions is about gloves. Missed that the first time.
    https://www.dadant.com/wp-content/up...s-USA-2015.pdf

    It's possible that the pictures in the apivar directions are showing a double-gloved person.
    Could be wearing nitrile gloves under their regular leather ones.
    Have done that before when applying MAQ's.
    Internet credibility is an oxymoron

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