What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ? - Page 7
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  1. #121
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    Sep 2012
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    Casey, Il, USA
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    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Gillmore View Post
    Harley. I sure don't want to make light of your families health issues, I understand completely. But you actually reinforced my point. You are doing what you need to do to preserve your daughters health. You are using a strong treatment method to keep her illness in check.

    Some beekeepers choose the same route with their bees, use whatever treatment works to keep the bees alive and bypass the less reliable holistic healing route. We're probably having two different conversations here, so I'll let it go at that.
    No I proved my point, that bees are not my children. And they shoukd never be cosiderded as such

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  3. #122
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Rock Hill, SC
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    56

    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    My wake-up call!
    I grew up around beehives. My grandfather and father were beekeepers. I had 20 to 30 hives for many years then moved to Arizona and got out of beekeeping for 23 years. A couple years ago I moved to the country in South Carolina and started back up again. When I left beekeeping in the 80's we didn't have mites. I started up again as "all natural". I paid a lot of money to get started back up with 3 hives of very nice Italians. They all died over the winter and I blamed hive beetles, wax moths, etc. I'm in South Carolina so our winters are not severe. I didn't realize that the mites had weakened them enough that the hive beetles and wax moths were able to move in and finish them off. All I saw was the evidence of wax moths at the end and hive beetles everywhere.
    I would say that many of the new beekeepers that think the hive beetles or wax moths got their hives were actually victims of mites first and didn't know it. I learned from my mistakes. I have MH bees now and I still treat them with Oxalic Acid. I don't think the hive beetles like it either. My hives are staying strong now. Things have changed since the 80's and I guess beekeeping is a continuous learning experience. I am very grateful for our local bee club (Y.C.B.A) and all their help.
    I hope others can learn from my mistakes. I did!

  4. #123
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    Mar 2015
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    Troy, IL
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    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    Cyberman--What are MH Bees?
    Thanks
    Mary

  5. #124
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    May 2013
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    Shreveport, Louisiana, USA
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    2,466

    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    Minnesota hygienic.
    David. The way you want to keep bees is most likely at least as good as any way that I could suggest. Probably better.

  6. #125
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    Mar 2015
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    Troy, IL
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    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    Thanks
    Mary

  7. #126
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    Apr 2014
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    Syracuse, UT
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    197

    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harley Craig View Post
    Believe it or not out of 20 colonies I only had 2 swarm, on me and both were after main harvest on a secondary flow we had one of which swarmed itself almost to death but they were in a pretty short TBH the others respond very well to swarm management albeit sometimes agressive swarm management like the one I knocked down all the cells because queen was still present, dumped empties all over the brood nest randomly then shook the queen and all the bees right in their own entrance, they all went back in and went to work fixing my "mess" and never left on me
    How often do you check for queen cells?

  8. #127
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    Sep 2012
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    Casey, Il, USA
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    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    Quote Originally Posted by blamb61 View Post
    How often do you check for queen cells?
    During peak swarm season apx every 5-7 days on my strong ones

  9. #128
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    Apr 2016
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    Southeast Texas
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    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    I say survival of the fittest - if they make it - they get split in the spring. Been working for me now for 9 years. Threw out all the chemicals. But it cost me the first year - went from 100 to 20 overnight. And that's what I built back from.

  10. #129
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    Dec 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    Sak, that is the rebuilt after the crash situation.
    Congrats on your success. I had many crashes but not that many
    compare to yours. Sure I will let them crash again once the hive number is
    high enough. Give it another year to decide the total tf route.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  11. #130
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    Apr 2016
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    Southeast Texas
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    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    Beepro - are you asking me what was the rebuild after the crash? if so I'm running 300 hives right now - and as far as give them another year? Its been 9 so far. I'm not saying I would not treat if necessary - it just haven't been.

  12. #131
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    Aug 2015
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    Bergen County, NJ
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    904

    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    Quote Originally Posted by sakhoney View Post
    I say survival of the fittest - if they make it - they get split in the spring. Been working for me now for 9 years. Threw out all the chemicals. But it cost me the first year - went from 100 to 20 overnight. And that's what I built back from.
    You got b*lls :-) . I am getting discouraged losing 2 out of 5. Congratulations.

  13. #132
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    May 2015
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    Champaign, Illinois
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    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    All it took was for me to do some mite counts the first year in the late summer after seeing a lot of crawling bees in the yard. Once you see them and can measure them (mites) you start thinking "do it" on the mite treatments especially when you see a few poor DWV bees struggling to waddle around. It's just easier to treat them than to get more bees. (for me)
    It's nice seeing healthy strong looking bees in September.
    Internet credibility is an oxymoron

  14. #133
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    Aug 2016
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    Phoenix, Arizona USA
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    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    Most people who want to be 'natural' will only last a short time without treatment because they have standard European queens and bees. Standard European hives are great for their honey production and temperament but when it comes to anything else they are quite useless compared to other varieties. Standard European hives offer no defense against hive beetles, wax moths, varroa mites and other pests. Using the standard European bee, keepers usually need to use chemicals just to keep the hives alive.

    The chemicals come with their own set of problems. If they release too much you can lose the hive, too little and there is no effect on the mites.

    One thing I always think is comical is that after using the chemicals, everyone can't figure out why their queens are not outputting like they should be and need to be replaced every year... The queen is not exempt from the treatment. It damages all the bees but the queen is the only one that lives long enough for that to be noticed. Thus, the queen gets replaced more often when you treat. Sometimes the chemicals simply do not work because of their overuse.

    If you really want to be a natural beekeeper, you must fight pests with the variety of bee you raise.

    As a test I put a hive of my Russian Black bees next to a standard European hive and mite checked them last year during the fall. The untreated standard European hive had a mite count of 100 in a 24 hour span while the Russian Black bees had 1 mite during the first 24 hour period. I continued doing counts for a week and a half and discovered the European hive ranged between 85 - 120 mites per 24 hour period while the Russian Black bees ranged between 0 - 3 during that same time.

    Here in Arizona, my favorite variety of bee to keep are AHB (obviously not anywhere near people of course) and here is why they are my favorite.

    I personally believe the standard European bee many people keep would not survive very long if unattended by a beekeeper. If you keep European bees, think of all the problems you have had with them in this past year. Most likely you dealt with mites and wax moths last fall and perhaps a mouse in the spring. If you have small hive beetles in your area you may have been affected by them as well. If you've got a bunch of hives you most likely have had queens stop laying for no reason. You've probably had American Foulbrood in your European hives.

    The Africanized bees are aggressive and tend to bee swarmy, but they are highly productive and build massive colonies very fast. Their honey collection is on par with any European hive you have got and I have never had a pest problem in any of my Africanized hives.

    The Russian Black bee is not as productive as the European bee but they are consistent and clean. They are not swarmy like the AHB but they do not produce as much honey per year.

    I'm not saying that the Russian Black bee, AHB or feral bees are 100% perfect but what I am saying is, I experience none of the common problems with my AHB or Black bee varieties. All the problems I experience come from my European hives in those same yards.

    Just my experience and thoughts.

    The key to fighting mites in my opinion?

    1) Capture a native hive in your area and raise queens from them to use in your other hives.

    2) Purchase queens that are mite resistant (such as the Black Bee).

  15. #134
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    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    Mclain - Unless you purchase queens on a regular basis, how do you feel the quality of the hybrid queens in your yard are?

  16. #135
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    Standard European hives offer no defense against hive beetles, wax moths, and other pests.
    Huh?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  17. #136
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    Aug 2016
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    Phoenix, Arizona USA
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    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    Quote Originally Posted by NewbeeInNH View Post
    Mclain - Unless you purchase queens on a regular basis, how do you feel the quality of the hybrid queens in your yard are?
    The AHB queens tend to be the most productive queen over all, according to what I have observed in my yards. They tend to fill every last cell in their brood nest and keep them all full. If you can get past the aggressive behavior (and keep them far away from people) the AHB is a great variety to have. If you keep some, be careful to continuously add boxes as they grow or the bees will swarm. If you catch a hive preparing to swarm just take on half of the bees away and they will think they did swarm and you made an easy split.

    The Russian queens tend to be slower building up hive population in general but they are a consistent variety that needs little attention. I have never had such a hive swarm on me.

    I do not purchase queens regularly and I believe that is because I do not use chemicals in my hives. My queens live anywhere from 3 - 5 years and perform wonderfully.

    I hope this answers your question.

  18. #137
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    Nov 2009
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    Manning, SC
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    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    I've found a 45 or 38 pointed at their favorite dog works best......
    Last edited by snl; 09-24-2016 at 11:10 AM.
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!

  19. #138
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    (deleted in the spirit of self moderation.)
    Last edited by squarepeg; 09-24-2016 at 11:30 AM.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  20. #139
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    Feb 2012
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    West Bath, Maine, United States
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    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    I present the analogy that a mite on a bee is equivalent to a large cat on a human sucking out blood and passing viruses during the exchange.
    Sometimes it works other times....
    A cat is too comfortable for the analogy. I suggest leeches, deer ticks or bedbugs to take home.

    Flea collar on my dog in my house but no OA in my hive because it is un-natural?

    A time for all seasons.

  21. #140
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    Default Re: What actually works to convince Newbees to treat mites ?

    Treat or TF is not a battle.

    Watching a wild turkey flock walk by. 3/4 will be dead next spring, but a flock will be here next fall.

    I would not raise a flock of of wild turkeys with a plan of selling them for Thanksgiving.

    Would not buy farm turkey chicks and release them with the plan of overwintering. It is a lot more probable I will have farm turkeys to work with then wild.

    The choice is what do you have for stock and what do you want for a product.
    Hat's off to those who balance the two. Riding the middle ground sucks.

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