Trying Michael Palmer's way
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  1. #1
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    May 2015
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    Default Trying Michael Palmer's way

    So as a new beekeeper ( 2nd year now) there is obviously a mountain to learn so ive been watching/reading a bunch online and I have really enjoyed the videos by Michael Palmer. This approach seems to make the most sense to me.
    ->i came through my first beekeeping winter with only 1 out of my 2 hives alive and have had a pretty successful year in 2016,. I made a bunch of splits then splits from splits.
    I have let some raise their own queens and also I have brought in 2 pure russian queens, 2 queens from Micheal Palmer and 3 queens from Anarchy Apiaries.

    -> we have only taken a total of 50lbs of honey this year for ourselves but have currently:

    6 Hives with 2x 10frame deeps (they are all working on honey supers but only one has much progress-> that hive has 2 full medium honey supers and a third one that they just started)
    9 nucs ( 8 in double overwintering nucs with 4 over 4--> being fed pollen patties and sugar syrup but not a whole lot of upper box progress in any of them so far) and 1 in a single 5 over 5 nuc ( this one is struggling with no upper box work yet)
    All hives large and small are being fed pollen patties and syrup.

    Im planning on seeing how every one does with making stores then combining/condensing the weaker hives into more double overwinter nucs and splitting up the resources to make sure everyone has the same amount of honey for winter.
    Im planning to wrap with tar paper, use quilt boxes for moisture, and feeding shims with upper entrances and sugar cakes and putting mouse guards in the lower entrances. Will be giving all another round of OAV treatment probably in a couple of weeks here also. They will have snow and wind breaks put up.
    I will also give them terramycin and mann lake winter patties before i shut up the hives for the winter.

    Does this all sound reasonable?

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
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    Rib Lake WI
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    Default Re: Trying Michael Palmer's way

    Why the Terramycin ?

  4. #3
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    Rensselaer County, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Trying Michael Palmer's way

    Why the Terramycin ?
    Yes, that's what I want to know, too? Are your hives showing signs of EFB? If not, I don't see why you'd add that extra stress to them while they are wintering. Think about what antibiotic treatment does to your gut!

    Otherwise it seems like your only item left will be to combine some of the nucs. It sounds like you have now 41 drawn and filled/occupied deep frames to make up X number of nucs. Plus whatever you can cajole them into getting done in the next month. If you want some 4/4s plus the 5/5, it would seem that you might eke out perhaps four or five of the 4/4 nucs. Feeding is useful to build stores but the key will be how much comb you can get them to draw, so they can fill.

    When I am aggressively building nucs I skip placing mediums (honey supers) on my double- (well, triple- in my case, but it's the same thing) deep 10s and give all the hives additional deeps to work on so the resources can be shared among the nucs that wind up a bit under-resourced. This gives me the greatest increase of winterable nucs. I figure a well-wintered colony can easily draw its own medium frames on the flow the next spring.

    You won't have to pinch/combine any of your purchased queens will you? Hope not!

    Don't forget to plan ahead for access to the hives so you can do that late-season one-shot of OAV in December (even you give them a series starting in a few weeks.) I don't do my final packing until that's finished.

    Enj.

  5. #4
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    May 2015
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    Default Re: Trying Michael Palmer's way

    I posted a reply about the terramycin but I don't see it here so hopefully this isn't a duplicate. I am just following the video series " a year in the life of an apiary" by a university entomologist I found on youtube. I don't know any better so if its not necessary I'm happy not to use the terramycin patties.
    That's a great idea with the deep frames Enj.
    I guess I had thought that if necessary I would break down the weakest 2 or 3 large hives and divide them also into 4/4 or 5/5 double ovrerwintering nucs so as not not have to pinch any queens and share out/divide all resources evenly across all the remaining nucs/hives.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    Central CA.
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    951

    Default Re: Trying Michael Palmer's way

    Good for you.

    You can't go to far wrong following Michael Palmer's plan.

  7. #6
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    Feb 2014
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    Clinton, Iowa
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    Default Re: Trying Michael Palmer's way

    I wonder if you're thinking of Fumagilin for nosema and not terramycin?

  8. #7
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    Sep 2008
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    Mtn. View, Arkansas, USA
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    Default Re: Trying Michael Palmer's way

    At one time the standing operating procedures for beekeeping called for preventative treatments in spring and fall to prevent American Foulbrood. The video "A year in the Life of an Apiary" is an old series, it still recommended the preventative treatment.
    42 + years - 24 colonies - IPM disciple - Naturally Skeptic

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Trying Michael Palmer's way

    ....that video (from Keith Delaplane) is from 1993...practices have changed.

    The use of TM in grease patties (extender patties) are largely viewed as being a big accelerator for resistant strains....and I'd be really suprised if Keith didn't strongly recommend against them today.

    ...it isn't his fault by any means....how could he predict and recommend in 93 what would be seen as best practice almost 25 years later?
    Sometimes the lights all shining on me
    Other times I can barely see. -The Grateful Dead

  10. #9
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Trying Michael Palmer's way

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    The use of TM in grease patties (extender patties) are largely viewed as being a big accelerator for resistant strains....and I'd be really suprised if Keith didn't strongly recommend against them today.

    Well, perhaps you should be aware that Keith Delaplane is still making essentially that same recommendation ...

    To prevent AFB, feed colonies the antibiotic TerramycinŽ according to label instructions in early spring and fall. Allow at least four weeks from the last TerramycinŽ treatment until the first nectar flow.

    http://extension.uga.edu/publication...m?number=B1045
    Keith's name is at the head of that page, as the UGA Extension Entomologist, and the "review date" of that page is March 2014.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  11. #10
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    May 2015
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    Default Re: Trying Michael Palmer's way

    according to the video series I watched the fumagilin which I also did was in the spring for nosema. I did that just after winter.

  12. #11
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    Default Re: Trying Michael Palmer's way

    I wonder if Michael Palmer uses Terramycin or fumagilin.

  13. #12
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    Default Re: Trying Michael Palmer's way

    Isn't Mr Palmer treatment free?
    I think so...

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Trying Michael Palmer's way

    I do not use TM or fumagilin. I do treat for varroa.

  15. #14
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    Default Re: Trying Michael Palmer's way

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidZ View Post
    Isn't Mr Palmer treatment free?
    I think so...
    See Michael's reply. He does not keep bees without treatments - In other words his operation is NOT TF. Neither is mine. Michael's bees are very alive and extremely productive.

  16. #15
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    Default Re: Trying Michael Palmer's way

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    I do not use TM or fumagilin. I do treat for varroa.
    That's good nuff for me! Thanks! I'm trying to follow your plan on the sustainable apiary video with regards the overwintering Nucs and trying to use brood and honey and pollen frames in the most sensible way I can.

  17. #16
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    Default Re: Trying Michael Palmer's way

    Treating according to label directions is different than using in a grease pattie.

    I can certainly imagine operations where using TM twice a year is required....maybe even places where that is true. I can't quite read the quote as a blanket recommendation (rather a description of an effective treatment )...I have no idea what he recommends to beekeepers in general.

    It's hard to imagine that such will be as easy when access to antibiotics are more difficult to get.

    I would see needing to use TM twice a year as an indication that something was wrong somewhere...either in my equipment or in someone elses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    Well, perhaps you should be aware that Keith Delaplane is still making essentially that same recommendation ...



    Keith's name is at the head of that page, as the UGA Extension Entomologist, and the "review date" of that page is March 2014.
    Sometimes the lights all shining on me
    Other times I can barely see. -The Grateful Dead

  18. #17
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    Default Re: Trying Michael Palmer's way

    Apologies to the OP.

    I read '...patties and terramycin' as one thing...on rereading I would assume the OP meant feeding a protein patty, and applying TM according the the label.
    Sometimes the lights all shining on me
    Other times I can barely see. -The Grateful Dead

  19. #18
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    May 2015
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    Default Re: Trying Michael Palmer's way

    no apologies needed mate you were correct i have terramycin patties i bought from mann lake. Sounds though that the general consensus is i dont need to use them so i wont. One less thing to do!

  20. #19
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    Dec 2009
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    Blacksburg, VA
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    Default Re: Trying Michael Palmer's way

    Quote Originally Posted by aran View Post
    That's good nuff for me! Thanks! I'm trying to follow your plan on the sustainable apiary video with regards the overwintering Nucs and trying to use brood and honey and pollen frames in the most sensible way I can.
    If you keep doing it, and you can build enough equipment, you will have more bees than you know what to do with.

  21. #20
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    May 2015
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    Skaneateles, NY
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    Default Re: Trying Michael Palmer's way

    Quote Originally Posted by rkereid View Post
    If you keep doing it, and you can build enough equipment, you will have more bees than you know what to do with.
    Thanks mate! Has been a good year. I have some lofty goals for next year:
    10 production hives hopefully producing at least 500lbs honey for harvesting
    16 nucs to take into winter of 2017
    I want to try and graft and raise some of my own queens so i can keep with Michaels self sustainable apiary plan.


    We will see if i can pull that off lol or i may be starting again if noone survives the winter!!!

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