Amitraz - Page 2
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 60

Thread: Amitraz

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    34,541

    Default Re: Amitraz

    Quote Originally Posted by GSkip View Post
    If you do a internet search for Amitraz you will find it for sale outside the US. Whether or not they will ship it to you is a different subject, but it is available.
    If you order Tactik from overseas don't be surprised when Customs meets you at the dock and hands you a fine while confiscating the product.
    Mark Berninghausen

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #22
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Chardon, Ohio
    Posts
    689

    Default Re: Amitraz

    Quote Originally Posted by tedlemay View Post
    Anyone familiar with mixing up your own Amitraz treatment? I see Apivar is 0.5g Amitraz and 15g Vehicle. An older beek told me you can mix your own a lot cheaper. Any takers................
    If you dig around the internet I am sure you can find several formulas. You need to understand that use of any pesticide in any way that is not listed on the label attached to the bag, bottle or other original container you purchased is against the law and the fines and jail terms per offense are severe. Using it on one hive is one offense. Using it on two hives it two offenses. Etc. If you are willing to risk the government taking your house, vehicles and bank account away from you go ahead and use it. Probably not the best way to save a few $ IMHO. Wildbranch said this very well with far fewer words. If I were a site moderator I would have deleted the original post and any replies as soon as I saw them, other than perhaps Wildbranch's post.

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Spencer, MA, USA
    Posts
    2,862

    Default Re: Amitraz

    Not true. I got some from Australia recently with no problems.

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    9,340

    Default Re: Amitraz

    Quote Originally Posted by tedlemay View Post
    Anyone familiar with mixing up your own Amitraz treatment? I see Apivar is 0.5g Amitraz and 15g Vehicle. An older beek told me you can mix your own a lot cheaper. Any takers................
    Off label
    Bad idea

    Apivar works great as per label directions

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Russellville, AL
    Posts
    78

    Default Re: Amitraz

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cryberg View Post
    If you dig around the internet I am sure you can find several formulas. You need to understand that use of any pesticide in any way that is not listed on the label attached to the bag, bottle or other original container you purchased is against the law and the fines and jail terms per offense are severe. Using it on one hive is one offense. Using it on two hives it two offenses. Etc. If you are willing to risk the government taking your house, vehicles and bank account away from you go ahead and use it. Probably not the best way to save a few $ IMHO. Wildbranch said this very well with far fewer words. If I were a site moderator I would have deleted the original post and any replies as soon as I saw them, otheru than perhaps Wildbranch's post.
    Why would you delete it? This is a lot of good information. If you don't ask you don't get answers! As i said , I am trying to make "informed" decisions. There seems to be a lot of people on this forum that want to assume all is bad and all others want to do is go off half cocked without first educating ourselves. Maybe I went to the wrong place for my education!
    Last edited by tedlemay; 08-14-2016 at 08:16 PM.

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    9,340

    Default Re: Amitraz

    But your asking an off label use of a chemical application on s public forum.
    What more do you need educated on? The pros and cons of improper chemical exposures to your hives?

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Marshall county, AL
    Posts
    3,404

    Default Re: Amitraz

    Quote Originally Posted by tedlemay View Post
    Maybe I went to the wrong place for my education!
    Here's the deal. If you use a pesticide in a way that violates the label, and cause any damage to other persons or the environment, and the EPA get's ahold of you, you could have bought a semi trailer load of Amitraz for what it's going to cost you.

    I have a Restricted Use Pesticide license and there is NO WAY I would attempt to do what you are considering doing.
    The more I learn about bees, the less I know.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
    Posts
    1,783

    Default Re: Amitraz

    I wonder where the commercial bee business would be now after the failure of the EPA miticides which I think may have led to the CCD epidemic If it were not for the use of Tactic and other unregistered treatments. I would also mention the years of using OA.
    Johno

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    10,349

    Default Re: Amitraz

    i'm not sure why we are being selective on chastisement for using chemicals 'off label'.

    prior to 3/10/2015 u.s. beekeepers using oxalic acid to kill mites in beehives were doing so illegally:

    http://www.regulations.gov/document?...2015-0043-0119

    and for those in states that haven't approved it yet, like alabama for instance, it may still be 'illegal':

    "Oxalic Acid has been approved by the EPA to treat honey bee colonies in the United States. It must pass state approval before it may legally be sold in each state."

    http://blog.brushymountainbeefarm.co...acid-faqs.html

    and unless you are purchasing epa labeled oa from brushy mountain you may be in violation:

    "Brushy Mountain Bee Farm has been authorized by the EPA to be the sole distributer of oxalic acid for use as a miticide on honey bees. What does this mean? Well, in order for any application of oxalic (in beehives) to be legal, it must have the EPA approval label on it; Brushy is the only distributor registered to use the EPA label. It may seem silly, but it really is there for a reason. If you start searching the internet for oxalic acid application in bees, there’s a broad range of information out there for recipes for taking straight oxalic acid (wood bleach) down to the 2 or 3%
    (recommended) application concentrations. Some internet guidance may be sound, but others can be reckless – and even dangerous – for you and your bees. How can you know the difference? Certainly, you don’t want to risk gettng hurt or inflicting undue stress on your bees. An EPA label assures you of what you are receiving and gives you the applicable instructions to follow; so, you can avoid any gamble from following unsubstaniated YouTube videos. For example, the oxalic acid purchased at your local hardware store is only 95% pure oxalic acid. The material sold through Brushy Mountain Bee Farm is 99% pure."

    from: http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/documents/GBLJul-2015a.pdf

    i would venture to guess that there a number of contributors on the forum that might be guilty of having broken the law for these various reasons.

    i don't have a dog in this fight because i don't use treatments of any kind, but i think we need to be a little less hypocritical here.

    tedlemay, randy oliver is a pretty smart guy and he has stayed away from amitraz or anything like it that builds up residual biproducts in the comb that linger for a very long time.

    your maqs is a lot more 'hive-friendly'. oxalic might be more cost effective if you do what most everyone else does and use unlabeled wood bleach, but then off course you would have to be constantly looking over your shoulder for the bee police.
    Last edited by squarepeg; 08-14-2016 at 06:26 PM.

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    9,340

    Default Re: Amitraz

    Trying to justify off label use of Amitraz
    Comparing it to OA use does not make a great case

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    10,349

    Default Re: Amitraz

    just trying to figure out why some 'sins' are worse than others, and who gets to make that call...

  13. #32
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,255

    Default Re: Amitraz

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    just trying to figure out why some 'sins' are worse than others, and who gets to make that call...
    I see a difference; amitraz is known to cause the development of resistance by the mites when used improperly or without rotation. In this case of using a bulk form (tactic) that is user concocted the possibility of over dosing (or for resistance issues) the greater sin of under dosing.

    OA had previous (~20 years) well tested usage in Europe and Canada without observed resistance development. The with-holding of approval in the US was due more to bureaucratic delay than safety or effectiveness issues, at least that is the general understanding.

    In that light, I have no problem seeing that some "sins" really are worse than others. In reality we all make calls in what issues to follow to the letter of the law and which ones we observe with a bit of personal discretion.
    Frank

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Suffolk Co, NY, USA
    Posts
    3,713

    Default Re: Amitraz

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    just trying to figure out why some 'sins' are worse than others, and who gets to make that call...
    you mean like manslaughter and premeditated murder or petty theft and grand larceny?

  15. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    34,541

    Default Re: Amitraz

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    I wonder where the commercial bee business would be now after the failure of the EPA miticides which I think may have led to the CCD epidemic If it were not for the use of Tactic and other unregistered treatments. I would also mention the years of using OA.
    Johno
    So you believe that miticides developed the way all other pesticides are developed contributed to CCD, but not the Home Remedies that use the same active ingredients? And what are you saying about the years of using OA? That that contributed to CCD too?
    Mark Berninghausen

  16. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    10,903

    Default Re: Amitraz

    >> "Brushy Mountain Bee Farm has been authorized by the EPA to be the sole distributer of oxalic acid for use as a miticide on honey bees."

    I have no argument with that statement, but let us note that Brushy Mtn is not the exclusive vendor of Brushy Mtn EPA approved/labeled oxalic acid. At a minimum, Dadant is reselling Brushy Mtn labeled oxalic acid.

    https://www.dadant.com/catalog/medic...ic-acid-m01758
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  17. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    9,340

    Default Re: Amitraz

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    just trying to figure out why some 'sins' are worse than others, and who gets to make that call...
    I think it's the jury of public opinion, or shal I say jury of Beekeeper's opinion.
    Not too long ago a beekeeper posted a pic of his nice looking broodnests on Facebook commercial page, which had blue shop towels visible in the pic. The comment section slammed him.
    Yet guys post vids of OA vapour application all the time with great interest.

    I think your just playing devils advocate but I do see your point. In Canada OA is registered, I did not realize it was not in the US

  18. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    North Florida
    Posts
    325

    Default Re: Amitraz

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    If you order Tactik from overseas don't be surprised when Customs meets you at the dock and hands you a fine while confiscating the product.
    Well now let's not set our hair on fire here. Never said I or anyone else was or had ordered it I only said it's available. I've worked in and retired from the law enforcement field, if it is restricted then customs will seize it. They have better bigger things to chase than a bottle of bug killer. But you are right if you use it there maybe issues legally.

  19. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    10,349

    Default Re: Amitraz

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    ...In reality we all make calls in what issues to follow to the letter of the law and which ones we observe with a bit of personal discretion.
    all good points frank and no argument here, but none of those were made to the op, just that what he was proposing to do was 'illegal', which it is, but no more or less so than the example provided.

    how is one supposed to know which issues get followed to the letter and which do not here? it seemed like a fair question that received an unfair response, but it appears i'm making too much of it, my apologies.

  20. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Panama City, Florida, USA
    Posts
    1,046

    Default Re: Amitraz

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    I see a difference; amitraz is known to cause the development of resistance by the mites when used improperly or without rotation. In this case of using a bulk form (tactic) that is user concocted the possibility of over dosing (or for resistance issues) the greater sin of under dosing.
    I think you are confusing apistan (fluvinate) with Apivar(amitraz). I do not think that there has been any development of resistance to amitraz. It was pulled because of improper dosage killing bees, not due to resistance in mites.

  21. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    10,903

    Default Re: Amitraz

    Quote Originally Posted by jbeshearse View Post
    I think you are confusing apistan (fluvinate) with Apivar(amitraz). I do not think that there has been any development of resistance to amitraz.
    Randy Oliver is reporting that there are varroa resistant to amitraz ...

    In Argentina, where amitraz has also been extensively used against varroa, a recent study suggests that mites in some operations have become at least 35 times more resistant to the chemical [33]. Similar reports come from throughout the world (Italy, Portugal, Argentina, and France; reviewed by Pires [34]). Surprisingly, a friend in Chile tells me that amitraz failed to control mites there after only three seasons of use.

    On the other hand, Semkiw [35], testing amitraz strips (similar to Apivar) in Poland, where the active ingredient has been used for 30 years, obtained up to 95% efficacy in eliminating varroa, with the majority of the mites dropping in the first three weeks, but full efficacy not obtained until 8 weeks.

    Here in the States, Sammataro [36] found signs of varroa resistance to amitraz as early as 2003, wryly noting that “Surprisingly, mites also showed resistance to amitraz, which is not a registered acaricide.” And last year, Eischen [37] found resistant mites in some operations.

    http://scientificbeekeeping.com/amit...raz-and-varroa
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •