Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping - Page 5
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  1. #81
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    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping

    Here is the Dr. Marla Spivak lecture on various things including pollen and propolis.

    2015 Bee Symposium: Helping Bees Stand on Their Own Six Feet

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDSQPRDtZUA

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  3. #82
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    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping

    Another one discussing relationship between nutrition, viruses, colony desertion etc.

    2015 Bee Symposium: Combined Effects of Viruses and Nutritional Stress on Honey Bee Health

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbYlmzHoURk

  4. #83
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    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping

    My hope in posting above links was

    a) Some important points can be extracted and added to "Keys to treatment free beekeeping"
    b) Partially answer a typical question "If the <<plug-your-favorite-TF-provider>> are so good, why dont they perform same across the nation"
    c) Partially answer another typical question "Why 'locally adapated' ?"

  5. #84
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    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping

    thanks for posting the links daisy, looking forward to watching them this weekend.

  6. #85
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    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by DaisyNJ View Post
    My hope in posting above links was

    a) Some important points can be extracted and added to "Keys to treatment free beekeeping"
    b) Partially answer a typical question "If the <<plug-your-favorite-TF-provider>> are so good, why dont they perform same across the nation"
    c) Partially answer another typical question "Why 'locally adapated' ?"
    Thank you Daisy! My intent was to add content to those initial bullet points by editing post #1, but I didn't realize the editing feature becomes unavailable after a while. Nevertheless, I may summarize everything into a new post for those looking for TF ideas. I hope others continue contributing so we end up with a nice summary.

  7. #86
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    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping

    Promoting drone comb. It can work as a mite trap as well as help spread your genetics into the open population. I think this is one of the main benefits of a foundationless approach. If this has been touched on already, apologies. My memory isn't what it once was.

    Look forward to watching the posted links above. In terms of propolis, has anyone worked with Caucasian bees much? Just curious what impressions are in terms of overall health of Caucasian colonies versus other bees.

  8. #87
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    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by JeronimoJC View Post
    Nevertheless, I may summarize everything into a new post for those looking for TF ideas. I hope others continue contributing so we end up with a nice summary.
    Be sure to think about adding these two important keys. Tell people to , when they say you won't be able to keep bees off of treatments. AND it is much easier to learn how to keep bees off of treatments while you learn how to keep bees (off of treatments) THAN learning how to keep bees (and treating them), and somehow magically weaning them off of treatments, while you learn beekeeping. Now you are ready to learn how to keep treatment free bees
    Please excuse me, I am now free to go manage & treat ;)
    my ladies the best way I know how.

  9. #88
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    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by Nordak View Post
    Promoting drone comb. It can work as a mite trap as well as help spread your genetics into the open population. I think this is one of the main benefits of a foundationless approach.
    Hmmm: usual caution: if you help your bees you can be undermining their natural tendency toward gaining resistance...

    Mike (UK)
    The race isn't always to the swift, nor the fight to the strong, but that's the way to bet

  10. #89
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    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by mike bispham View Post
    Hmmm: usual caution: if you help your bees you can be undermining their natural tendency toward gaining resistance...

    Mike (UK)
    I think you misunderstand my meaning. Perhaps the word "promoting" was an unintended misuse. I should have stated by allowing bees the freedom to build as much drone comb as desired, this has a two fold effect. It promotes the release of wanted genetics into the open population and gives hygienic bees a place to focus their uncapping efforts, thus potentially lowering mite infestation levels. That is in no way intervening. It's allowing bees to do what they would do. I don't do uncapping, I let my bees do it.

  11. #90
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    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by fieldsofnaturalhoney View Post
    Be sure to think about adding these two important keys. Tell people to , when they say you won't be able to keep bees off of treatments. AND it is much easier to learn how to keep bees off of treatments while you learn how to keep bees (off of treatments) THAN learning how to keep bees (and treating them), and somehow magically weaning them off of treatments, while you learn beekeeping. Now you are ready to learn how to keep treatment free bees
    I see the wisdom of your words. The dark side doesn't make it easy at all. :-)

  12. #91

    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping

    s
    top selecting against it like beekeepers have been doing for almost 200 years...
    What amazes me is how fast this wrong selections go backwards if you leave the bees to their natural ways.
    I´m doing too much management still.

    Concerning the use of propolis I realized that every time there is a crisis the propolis gets sticky. Afterwards it`s normal again.

  13. #92
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    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by Nordak View Post
    I think you misunderstand my meaning. Perhaps the word "promoting" was an unintended misuse. I should have stated by allowing bees the freedom to build as much drone comb as desired, this has a two fold effect. It promotes the release of wanted genetics into the open population and gives hygienic bees a place to focus their uncapping efforts, thus potentially lowering mite infestation levels. That is in no way intervening. It's allowing bees to do what they would do. I don't do uncapping, I let my bees do it.
    Ah, yes and I was to quick to conclude you meant something else! I do the same Nordak. Maybe a little modification to what you've written here to say: unlimited brood nests give resistant/tolerant bees an important mechanism to promote strong genes locally whether that strength involves hygienic behaviour or other mechanisms of mite management; and/or strengths completely outside mite issues.

    Mike (UK)
    The race isn't always to the swift, nor the fight to the strong, but that's the way to bet

  14. #93
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    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by mike bispham View Post
    Ah, yes and I was to quick to conclude you meant something else! I do the same Nordak. Maybe a little modification to what you've written here to say: unlimited brood nests give resistant/tolerant bees an important mechanism to promote strong genes locally whether that strength involves hygienic behaviour or other mechanisms of mite management; and/or strengths completely outside mite issues.

    Mike (UK)

  15. #94
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    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by Nordak View Post
    I think you misunderstand my meaning. Perhaps the word "promoting" was an unintended misuse. I should have stated by allowing bees the freedom to build as much drone comb as desired, this has a two fold effect. It promotes the release of wanted genetics into the open population and gives hygienic bees a place to focus their uncapping efforts, thus potentially lowering mite infestation levels. That is in no way intervening. It's allowing bees to do what they would do. I don't do uncapping, I let my bees do it.


    This makes perfect sense, and could help explain why my bees seem to be doing very well, some of them will uncap the heck outta brood and the fact that I run a lot of foundationless I tend to have more drone comb than " recomended", I always figured the bees knew best.

  16. #95
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    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by SiWolKe View Post
    Concerning the use of propolis I realized that every time there is a crisis the propolis gets sticky. Afterwards it`s normal again.
    Interesting. Is this just about hive temperature?

    Mike (UK)
    The race isn't always to the swift, nor the fight to the strong, but that's the way to bet

  17. #96

    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by mike bispham View Post
    Interesting. Is this just about hive temperature?

    Mike (UK)
    Not to let it be an assertion I looked in my records after your post.
    One example: a copy:

    datum05.06.2016 19:31
    Online SiWolKe

    Informationen anzeigen
    5.6.2016

    Durchsicht.
    Trachtwetter, warm, sonnig
    Königin gesehen, aber irgendwas stimmt nicht.
    Ausbau schlecht.
    20 merkwürdige Zellen gesehen, vermute Sackbrut.
    Viel klebriges Propolis.

    That was when this hive had sacbrood, I wrote: much propolis, sticky.

    14 Völker Kleinzellerbienen , Imkerin seit 3 Jahren , Moderatorin
    >Fällt dir etwas ein, dann nimm es auf und setze es um – dazu ist es dir ja eingefallen, denn sonst wär ́s vorbei gefallen. (Sepp Holzer)<

    86m datum29.06.2016 06:42
    Online SiWolKe
    Volk : schwarze Biene AMM LaPalma 2014

    Datum: 28.06.2016
    Standort,Abstand: Wildpark 3km
    Königin: Mutter AMM Haplo 15 LaPalma

    Datum Ableger: Mai 2016 Königin mit verdeckelter Brut
    Wetter: warm, sonnig

    Weather the same

    Tracht: gut

    Aggression: sehr mild
    Propolisqualität: normal

    They are healthy again, propolis normal, meaning more dry

    Wabensitz: sehr gut
    Weiselzellen?: nein


    Brutwabenanzahl: 6

    Brutpause?: eher nicht
    Brutqualität: stiftet mäßig
    Futtersaft: sehr gut
    Brut/Honiganteil: wenig Honig, viel Pollen


    Eintrag: keine Überschüsse
    Bruthygiene Drohnen: nein
    Bruthygiene Arbeiter: nein

    Wabenbau 4.9: -

    Drohnen?: Drohnenecken sehr gut
    Varroen auf Bienen: nein
    Def. Bienen: nein
    Zittern: nein

    Gefüttert: nein
    Zargenanzahl: 2, oben keine Bearbeitung
    Verschiedenes: Sackbrut nicht mehr vorhanden, in einer Woche nach flächigem Stiften schauen

    No more sacbrood

    I believe it`s not the weather, it`s a crisis (winter preparations are a crisis, too, to shut down a hive against cold.)

  18. #97
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    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by SiWolKe View Post
    I believe it`s not the weather, it`s a crisis (winter preparations are a crisis, too, to shut down a hive against cold.)
    Interesting. I'd frame hive temperature (which will always raise stickiness) in terms of a choice, if you like, that the bees make. When it suits them to heat only the brood nest and let the stores cool, that happens; if they want to mould wax and evaporate nectar for example, its worth the cost of heating the cavity. A raised temperature is a guide to general activity levels (and commensurate energy consumption). Would you agree? Can we speculate anything more from that?

    Mike (UK)
    The race isn't always to the swift, nor the fight to the strong, but that's the way to bet

  19. #98
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    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping


  20. #99

    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by mike bispham View Post
    Interesting. I'd frame hive temperature (which will always raise stickiness) in terms of a choice, if you like, that the bees make. When it suits them to heat only the brood nest and let the stores cool, that happens; if they want to mould wax and evaporate nectar for example, its worth the cost of heating the cavity. A raised temperature is a guide to general activity levels (and commensurate energy consumption). Would you agree? Can we speculate anything more from that?

    Mike (UK)
    Sure, if Oldtimer is entertained

    I always thought the bees keep hive temperature at the same level? Am I wrong?

    Whenever I check it`s not only one hive but 2-3 in a row. The propolis consistence and amount changes from hive to hive. Concerning selection it`s important to me they have much propolis to fight disease. So I´m always recording how sticky it is.
    Starting beekeeping I thought this depends on the special colony. But no. My records show that the consistence changes with health conditions.
    Sometimes very quickly.
    But I don`t know how they do it. Mix with water? Evaporate water in the hive? Collect some more? Use heat?

    To know about this, I compare between hives which have the same bee density. Weak hives have other priorities, the foraging for pollen to feed the brood.

    After making splits of equal size those with queens had less propolis than those queenless.
    I believe those with queen ,which goes on laying, forget about all work except expanding brood again.

    To be without a queen is a severe crisis. They are likely to be robbed (closing up the hive so others bees can´t smell this, maybe) and they have more honey to defend, no brood to nurse after some time, later on no pheromones from open brood.
    Everybody can hear this crisis from the sound.
    So far I had no queenless hive with dry propolis. Always sticky.

    The moulding of wax and heating of brood nest....
    It`s locally done I believe. The bee can heat it`s body itself using energy from nectar and honey. With my big dadant boxes it`s not possible to heat the top box with body heat up to a certain degree, but the top is sticky like in bottom brood box even more sticky sometimes. Well, heat goes up...

    In my opinion nectar water content evaporates mostly with ventilation. If nectar is freshly put in cells you can hear the ventilation from far away.
    But surely they need some temperature or they would take syrup in a warm winter.
    Last edited by 1102009; 09-04-2016 at 06:08 AM.

  21. #100
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    Default Re: Keys to Treatment Free Beekeeping

    [QUOTE=SiWolKe;1470530]The moulding of wax and heating of brood nest....
    It`s locally done I believe. The bee can heat it`s body itself using energy from nectar and honey. With my big dadant boxes it`s not possible to heat the top box with body heat up to a certain degree, even though the top is sticky like in bottom brood box even more sticky sometimes.[/queen]

    What follows is speculation on my part...

    As they are hanging there must be lots of ventilation between them. So without an enclosed space it might pay to tie up more bees with a local clustering to keep the workspace warm. But taking advantage of a warm cavity would free up bees - an advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiWolKe View Post
    In my opinion nectar water content evaporates mostly with ventilation. If nectar is freshly put in cells you can hear the ventilation from far away.
    I'd image the bees locate an optimum between temperature and humidity at which evaporation is most rapid, and ventilate to produce that. Since water will evaporate much more readily into a dryer atmosphere, and since warm air holds much more vapour, controlling the relative humidity to optimise evaporation will be advantageous. That means finding the balance between warmth and humidity....

    Brooding too is easier if you can free bees from the job of keeping brood warm, and heavy brooding will raise temperature in an enclosed space toward the brood temperature.

    There must be some science somewhere about hive temperatures, the whys and wherefores!

    Mike (UK)
    The race isn't always to the swift, nor the fight to the strong, but that's the way to bet

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