Requeening above an excluder - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Sep 2017
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    Modesto, California, USA
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    29

    Default Re: Requeening above an excluder

    Quote Originally Posted by ffrtsaxk View Post
    I tried it last year and got a laying queen in both boxes, but they killed the queen in the top box within a couple of weeks of her starting to lay. From what I've read and seen, it is one of those things than can work but doesn't always work. It's alright to play around with as long as you have a backup plan and aren't relying on it as your only source of queens.
    Thankyou. That was my impression of what might happen from reading Doolittle's book, but it sounded a little unreliable. Any idea what percentage of queen cells makes it into a laying queen? Even if it was only 50%, it would still be worth it, far less expensive than breaking up a production colony into mating nucs....

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  3. #22
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    Sep 2017
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    Modesto, California, USA
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    Default Re: Requeening above an excluder

    I think the idea of this thread is to introduce an UNCAPPED queen cell above the queen excluder, that will then be maintained by the nurse bees rather than destroying it.

  4. #23
    Join Date
    May 2019
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    Nacogdoches, TX, USA
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    255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boxelder View Post
    I think the idea of this thread is to introduce an UNCAPPED queen cell above the queen excluder, that will then be maintained by the nurse bees rather than destroying it.
    I experimented with this last year after a commercial break told me about it. Made sure the top deep and bottom deep had queen cells and propped up the lid so the top queen had an exit and put a QE in between. Came back a few weeks later and had two mated queens fat and laying. Pulled one of them out into a nuc. Worked out well for me.

    Ryan

  5. #24
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    Jul 2017
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    Farmington, MO, USA
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    150

    Default Re: Requeening above an excluder

    Quote Originally Posted by Boxelder View Post
    Thankyou. That was my impression of what might happen from reading Doolittle's book, but it sounded a little unreliable. Any idea what percentage of queen cells makes it into a laying queen? Even if it was only 50%, it would still be worth it, far less expensive than breaking up a production colony into mating nucs....
    I think the percentage of queen cells that make it into a laying queen is going to vary a lot depending on everything else that is going on. Doolittle had tremendous success for a while, then it turned disastrous in bad years. So, I couldn't even guess what it would average out to. In addition to the attempt in a Langstroth last year, I had a queen isolated from supersedure queen cell in my observation hive. It was going well until we had a few days of rain and the foragers couldn't get out. Then, they tore the capped cell down and ate the pupa. So, there are lots of things that can go wrong.

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hampton Arkansas
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    151

    Default Re: Requeening above an excluder

    I just went into a 5 over 5 today and found 2 capped queen cells in the bottom box and a laying queen in the top box. so I put a queen excluder in between the 2 boxes leaving the cells on bottom. i will come back in 2 weeks and see what has happened. If I have a laying queen in the bottom it will be an easy split to make.

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
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    1,167

    Default Re: Requeening above an excluder

    Quote Originally Posted by GregH View Post
    I just went into a 5 over 5 today and found 2 capped queen cells in the bottom box and a laying queen in the top box. so I put a queen excluder in between the 2 boxes leaving the cells on bottom. i will come back in 2 weeks and see what has happened. If I have a laying queen in the bottom it will be an easy split to make.
    Why not just pull the top box now? some field bees will come back , it has cells, I would think it works better with a queen less hive hatching the cells VRS a queen rite.
    Is it a Supersedure? Cuz if they are swarm cells she may hatch and leave, just thinking of all the options. IMO I would remove the old queen, just in case they wish to swarm. If you are going to any way all that differs is the timing.
    GG

  8. #27
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    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hampton Arkansas
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    151

    Default Re: Requeening above an excluder

    Gray goose: Judging by the way the queen is laying it is going to be a Superseder. I have more grafted queen cells that will be ready this weekend so I am going to go ahead and just break this hive down into 3 splits and give them all a new queen cell and pinch the old queen.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Modesto, California, USA
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    29

    Default Re: Requeening above an excluder

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    Why not just pull the top box now? some field bees will come back , it has cells, I would think it works better with a queen less hive hatching the cells VRS a queen rite.
    Is it a Supersedure? Cuz if they are swarm cells she may hatch and leave, just thinking of all the options. IMO I would remove the old queen, just in case they wish to swarm. If you are going to any way all that differs is the timing.
    GG
    To me, the big attraction of mating a virgin in a queenright hive is that it does not unnecessarily parse our resources to the point that we have a lot of weak hives. A mating nuc probably cannot do anything beyond maintain itself - and sometimes struggles to do even that. Those same two frames of bees, if part of a larger hive, can contribute significantly to the strength and resource-gathering ability of the hive.

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA USA
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    131

    Default Re: Requeening above an excluder

    I had success with using a box above a queen excluder as a cell finisher. I put hair rollers on the finished cells to prevent conflict on emergence.

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
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    1,167

    Default Re: Requeening above an excluder

    Quote Originally Posted by Andhors View Post
    I had success with using a box above a queen excluder as a cell finisher. I put hair rollers on the finished cells to prevent conflict on emergence.
    Andhors, Have you ever actually hatched and mated queen above an excluder over a queen rite colony? Just wondering I want to try it. Upper entrance would be needed.

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA USA
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    131

    Default Re: Requeening above an excluder

    No. Not mated, just finished QC’s.

  13. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Syracuse, UT
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    219

    Default Re: Requeening above an excluder

    bump, I'm interested in this if anyone has had success with this.

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    George County, MS
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    40

    Default Re: Requeening above an excluder

    Quote Originally Posted by Boxelder View Post
    Reviving this thread to ask - does anyone place an uncapped queen cell above an excluder, with an upper entrance, with the intended result a mated queen in both the top and bottom box? In other words, can you semi-reliably get a virgin to mate in the second story of a queen right hive, as Doolitle described?
    Boxelder - Yes, see Bob Binnie's video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z62UwOLfdMo&t=15s

  15. #34
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    Sep 2017
    Location
    Modesto, California, USA
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    Default Re: Requeening above an excluder

    Thankyou AzaleaHill - I actually just watched the video a few weeks ago. But, unless I missed something, the video only described requeening where the supers are separated by a double screen, rather than just a queen excluder.

    Or did I miss something? It wouldn't be the first time

  16. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    George County, MS
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    40

    Default Re: Requeening above an excluder

    Boxelder, Here’s how I understand the method.
    1) start with a double deep colony (bottom box = B1; top box = B2) and a new deep box (w/frames = B3)
    2) Separate the colony and equalize the brood and resources between B1 and B2.
    3) Find the queen and put her in the B1; or if you can’t find the queen, shake ALL the bees from B2 frames into B1.
    4) put a queen excluder on B1, put B2 on the QE and put B3 on B2
    5) wait 24 hours for the bees to equalize between the boxes (the QE keeps the queen in B1)
    6) rebuild the stack with B1 on the bottom, next is B3, then a double screen board, then B2.
    7) B1 bees now have a new box to expand into; B2 bees will suddenly realize they are queenless and build a queen cell. Remove B2 to a separate bottom board sometime after 13 days, as appropriate.

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