Why do my graphs keep getting stuck on wall
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Derry, New Hampshire
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    2,295

    Default Why do my graphs keep getting stuck on wall

    First round complete failure. Second try a little better but seem to have a reoccurring problem of my larvae touching the cell wall and getting stuck. No luck with Chinese tool ive been using jzbz one with good results. any secrets? also any difference in ease picking ones up curled one way vs other? in other words i'm a lefty should I be trying ones curled to that side?
    Terrence

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    10,191

    Default Re: Why do my graphs keep getting stuck on wall

    Try picking the larvae up from either the back or the end and leave a little bit of the larva hanging over the edge of the tool so you can touch that down on the bottom of the cell and drag the tool out from under it.

    When I was doing grafting I used a very fine paint brush (000 sable) so it could be slid under the larva plus some royal jelly, then to get it off I could roll the brush out from under it which also left the royal jelly. I deally the brush would not contact the larva there would be a little scoop of royal jelly and that, with the larva on top, would get put into the queen cup. I've seen those Chinese grafting tools but they look way too coarse to me I don't know how people use them.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Castle Rock, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,702

    Default Re: Why do my graphs keep getting stuck on wall

    I've read that some of the (earlier???) Chinese tools were made with feathers. I recently bought a handful on sale, and they were all a rather stiff flat plastic. The sable brush sounds much more promising - thanks, OT, for the tip - I'll be giving it a whirl soon. (I believe Lauri also mentioned preferring them - I imagine there are others).
    After 40 years of beekeeping, I've come to realize that the bees can fix most of my mistakes.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Robeson County, North Carolina
    Posts
    739

    Default Re: Why do my graphs keep getting stuck on wall

    * grafts?

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,794

    Default Re: Why do my graphs keep getting stuck on wall

    So far my favorite too is the 000 sable brush also. I have experimented with all sorts of things. I am determined to make the German grafting tool work for me as well. After much filing buffing and polishing I may finally have one that will work. I like the brush because it bends and slips under the larva quite easily. I also approach from the back second choice from the end. as for getting the larva stuck on the cell wall. cut down the cells so they are shallow enough to get to the larva easily. I use various small sculpting tools to do that. By the way my daughters favorite tool is a plastic straw cut to a point. So I don't attempt to tell anyone what works best.
    Everything gets darker, as it goes to where there is less light. Darrel Tank (5PM drawing instructor)

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Derry, New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,295

    Default Re: Why do my graphs keep getting stuck on wall

    Thanks I will check out the brush. Trimming the wall might be what will help me. Thanks for the tips
    Terrence

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    4,953

    Default Re: Why do my graphs keep getting stuck on wall

    I use the Chinese tool....I have several amd they are all different.

    I use a stiffer one if grafting off of plastic (the plectrum can be shoved down the side of the cell and curls under the larva), and a much softer one for wax (this one I bend a little with my teeth to fit the cell bottom).

    In all cases the movement of the grafting tool is essentially the same....get the plectrum under the larva, then reverse your movements (rather than picking straight up)..the larva will stay on the tool, and you relieve the tension that would push the larva into the cell wall by 'pulling back' where you just 'pushed forward' to get the larva.

    I've never cut down cell walls to graft.
    Sometimes the lights all shining on me
    Other times I can barely see. -The Grateful Dead

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,922

    Default Re: Why do my graphs keep getting stuck on wall

    I also use the Chinese grafting tool. It takes a particular movement, as deknow says. You come up and back simultaneously or it will get caught on the wall. Even knowing that it takes practice and even when I've been doing well at it sometimes I lose my "groove" and have to focus to remember to do that, because I start getting them stuck to the wall again.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Clinton, Iowa
    Posts
    6,034

    Default Re: Why do my graphs keep getting stuck on wall

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    I've never cut down cell walls to graft.
    It looks like a one year old was 'finger painting' on my grafting frame when I'm done with it.

    I had a really stiff batch of Chinese tools last year... they were terrible. Bought another 10 from another place and they seem to be just right. It was like night and day, and I had no additional practice. I actually bought some JZBZ to try, but the Chinese ones are pretty slick. I'm still goofing up about 20-25% of my grafts, but I'm about 100% positive that it's because of the way I'm getting them back off of the tool. Need to improve with that. Picking them is pretty easy for me, getting them off is really simple about 50% of the time. The other 50%, not as smooth. I'll keep improving... hopefully. Probably directly related to how far I'm driving the graft up onto the plastic 'tongue'. Sometimes they'll slip right off without using the plunger... those are the best.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Derry, New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,295

    Default Re: Why do my graphs keep getting stuck on wall

    I'll be taking a look at the grafts today so hopefully I got better then the first time. Thanks for the insights. up and back.....up and back
    Terrence

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    2,628

    Default Re: Why do my graphs keep getting stuck on wall

    Also try larger magnification. That helped me more than anything.

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