Found a great crimping tool for wiring frames - Page 3
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  1. #41
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    4,985

    Default Re: Found a great crimping tool for wiring frames

    Crimping does not make the wire stronger. Man oh man I cant understand what is so complicated about this concept. It simply gives many more directional faces of contact with the wax which makes it many times harder for the comb to pull off the wire. The only time I experienced pull through and comb damage was when I experimented with so called spider wire synthetic fishing line. Personally I dont think the extra grip given by the crimping is essential for most frame wiring but the ability of the crimping function to take up slack and evenly tension the strands makes the stringing and iniatil tensioning less critical. You can string so that the wire only only gives a dull thud when plucked, the side bars are not bowed etc., and after quickly zipping the wires with the crimper they will twang! The crimper serves two purposes.

    Each zig in the wire is a miniature spring and can continue to take up slack as the sidebars yield over time to the tension of the wires.

    Any kind of a half workable embedder needs a method to press the cross wires into the foundation. If you have vertical embedded wire foundation you have to put pressure between the vertical wires or your cross wires will be blowing in the wind and the bees will not properly incorporated. Pictured below is one I made up with a series of a dozen or so individual pressure fingers. The electrical contact points engage each cross wire run just inside the endbars. Unwired foundation sheets are easier to crosswire and embed than vertical wire foundation.
    switch and pressure fingers.JPGembedder.JPG
    Last edited by crofter; 06-30-2016 at 07:30 AM.
    Frank

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  3. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    4,953

    Default Re: Found a great crimping tool for wiring frames

    I generally don't bother....as I said earlier, the primary use for wire is to support the foundation. I don't have enough issues with weak comb (even foundationless deeps) to bother.
    Sometimes the lights all shining on me
    Other times I can barely see. -The Grateful Dead

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Shickshinny, Pennsylvania
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    1,598

    Default Re: Found a great crimping tool for wiring frames

    I thought the main reason for wire is to support heavy honey laden comb in the extractor , I never had any trouble with un wired comb for crush and strain until one found its way into the extractor !

    I use a really old train transformer for embedding , works great , always have the same amount of power and no charging batteries .

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    4,953

    Default Re: Found a great crimping tool for wiring frames

    Crimping will 'work harden' the wire (think of breaking a metal coat hanger by bending back and forth). It will get stiffer and more brittle from crimping.
    Sometimes the lights all shining on me
    Other times I can barely see. -The Grateful Dead

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    4,953

    Default Re: Found a great crimping tool for wiring frames

    Kelly sells a proper transformer at a good price to embed foundation.
    Sometimes the lights all shining on me
    Other times I can barely see. -The Grateful Dead

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,794

    Default Re: Found a great crimping tool for wiring frames

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    Crimping does not make the wire stronger. Man oh man I cant understand what is so complicated about this concept.
    switch and pressure fingers.JPGembedder.JPG
    Not sure exactly who you are referring to. But I said stiffer, not stronger. Could be one of the causes of things getting complicated. Since each crimp is intended to act as a spring to take up slack. I suspect this only works if you use the wire intended for this purpose. Which in turn I would guess is stainless steel spring wire also known as piano wire. Not all wire has memory and will spring back. Where do folks get it and at what price? say price per lb.
    Everything gets darker, as it goes to where there is less light. Darrel Tank (5PM drawing instructor)

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,922

    Default Re: Found a great crimping tool for wiring frames

    >Where do folks get it

    It's been quite some time since I bought stainless wire for frames. The last time I bought it I could only find it at Glory Bee. I have not looked for it recently and can't say if they still have it or not.

    >I thought the main reason for wire is to support heavy honey laden comb in the extractor

    Ad deknow pointed out it was not its intended purpose when it was invented nor is it necessary. I don't wire at all and I extract most of my honey. But it does seem like people started using it with the intent of adding strength. Without crimping the comb is more likely to tear in a straight line on the wire and more likely to tear at all...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
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    3,794

    Default Re: Found a great crimping tool for wiring frames

    I have the source but I still need to know what diameter wire.
    Everything gets darker, as it goes to where there is less light. Darrel Tank (5PM drawing instructor)

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
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    3,794

    Default Re: Found a great crimping tool for wiring frames

    NVM. 0.016 at Mcmaster Carr 1450 ft roll $39.83 item number 9495K17. not sure how that compares to your bee suppliers 1000 ft roll. Mcmaster Carr does not tend to be cheap.
    Everything gets darker, as it goes to where there is less light. Darrel Tank (5PM drawing instructor)

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    7,861

    Default Re: Found a great crimping tool for wiring frames

    After a season or 2 on the wire the comb is all brown and stronger.
    I have to use much tearing force to pull the comb out of the wires.
    If you have seen my you tube extractor process most of the honey frames are
    wired up. And there is only one type of frame wires that I know of for wiring these
    frames.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  12. #51
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,985

    Default Re: Found a great crimping tool for wiring frames

    I checked the tin plated carbon steel wire from Mann Lake and come up with ~ .017" dia. (with dial calipers, not micrometer). I investigated a bit into stainless wire and it appeared three or 4 times more expensive. One source that came up was from doing a search for "stainless steel fishing line".

    Both formic and oxalic acid seem to take the shine off the tin plated steel line but I would imagine by the time the exposed portions rusted away the comb would be well anchored in the frame. What is embedded in the comb is protected. I dont see any stainless steel line in my future plans.
    Frank

  13. #52
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Hampstead, NC USA
    Posts
    1,208

    Default Re: Found a great crimping tool for wiring frames

    Stainless is a waste of time and money as far as I am concerned. I don't even know where I got the roll of wire I am using right now. It is marked 1# which I guess means it is a pound of wire. It felt like more than a pound though when I put it on the board I use. If I think of it I'll measure it to get the gauge. It is very thin carbon steel and it has a little rust on it from sitting in the garage.
    I wire only the deep frames that I use in the brood boxes. I sometimes extract these along with mediums but generally it is mediums only for honey. I wire using only the two center holes. I use 4 eyelets and small nails in one end bar. I am about to post another thread that shows the board I use to get the wire tight. I use a bar like crofter to short out the wire for embedding but I dont have additional pressure points being provided by the bar. I let the wire get hot and then I just press the foundation down with my hand. The ONLY reason I wire is because I try to keep as many assembled and populated frames as I need on hand . When I install foundation it will bulge or bow or warp or whatever it's called. This big curve from the vertical wire memory doesn't show up until the foundation is in the frames for a day or two. This makes me nuts putting a frame with curved foundation in a box. I know it will give me problems so I have frames ready to go whenever possible. I am small time needless to say. I think if I were a big outfit I would use one of the rigid foundations as well as foundationless for sure depending on the season etc.
    I love the foundationless principle but I was not able to use it without getting tons of drove comb. Michael will chime in I hope to recommend when to use foundationless for getting only worker size comb.
    "Challenger" as in the Mopar muscle car. Not a personality description .
    Keeping bees to raise money for chordoma.

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