Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages - Page 5
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  1. #81
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    San Mateo, CA
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    6,771

    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    My Brother Adam brood chambers consistently produce more honey with less swarming than the different Langstroth configurations that I use. These are 200 - 300 lb. crops on a few. Charlie B was calling them "machinations" a few days ago. Since he owes me a few hours of labor, I told him that he should come heft the honey full supers off the hives for me. That top box has ten 11 1/4" frames drawn from foundation in it and should weigh about 80 lbs. Maybe after he gets it down, he will shut up about my large hives. These are locally caught baithive bees. Equipment dates from 1979 after I visited Brother Adam. Constant renovations and renewal keep it in service.


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  3. #82
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    Richardson, TX, USA
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    378

    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/naldc/down...53&content=PDF

    This is an excellent read if I recall.
    That was an interesting read. Thanks for sharing the article.

  4. #83
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Ojai, California
    Posts
    2,573

    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    Fusion - Thank you for the link to the Frank C. Pellet book. That was an excellent read as well.

  5. #84
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Houston, TX, USA
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    646

    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    Odfrank, do you use similar management as Bernhard, specifically the limited brood nest? It is contrary to the majority of current discussions/wisdom regarding unlimited nests. Do you manage all of your hives the same?

  6. #85

    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    Made a video on how to inspect square Dadant hives (12 frames, Brother Adam hive, whatever you name it).


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6RNUfWMbIQ

    Can't get much easier than this. I did it single handed in that video, holding the mobile with the other hand to film it. Slide combs to make room in the center, pull center comb, inspect it. Have a look down the other facing combs. To make sure pull the outer comb, that faces the follower board. That's it. If you find swarm cells or too much nectar and pollen on the combs, juggle through all 7 combs. Which is done quickly, too.

    Compare this with all the breaking loose of propolized = immobilized combs (Hoffmann frames) and pulling of multiple combs, not seeing all of the swarm cells anyway. Unstacking and stacking brood boxes. Oh, I have done it all by myself and know what I am talking about. If you compare it side by side, the choice is pretty easy. Once you worked those Dadant hives in real life, you certainly will bite. Especially if you see the magic it does, when it comes to honey and little (I don't say no) swarming. Note that this hive best works with the Buckfast bee, which perfectly fits into that system. You put the best bee into the best hive and end up with best results.

  7. #86
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Warren County, NJ, USA
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    533

    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    thanks for taking the time bernhard. what is your climate like there?

  8. #87

    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    Being relatively close to the coast we have a more maritime but temperate climate. I am living a sheltered location, which is why we usually have here much warmer weather than in the rest of Germany. Plant hardiness zone is 7. (7b) Climate should be similar as in Philadelphia.

    Don't think climate matters much other than insulating the hive more in winter and needing more winter stores.

  9. #88
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Catskills, NY
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    276

    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    I want to take the opportunity to ask a question here, since this thread seems to be followed by a good amount of beekeepers who use hives other than Langstroth as well.

    Since it seems like every hive design other than Langstroth utilizes frames that are "deeper" than the "deep" Langstroth dimension, I was wondering how practical or impractical would it be for me to install a spacer, like a shallow or medium box ABOVE the bottom board and below the first brood box. I'd like to try doing this in order to let the bees build comb right off the bottom bars of my frames to extend the brood combs. I'd like to have some of the benefits of the larger combs these other hive designs have without having to change out all of my equipment. Otherwise, what other methods are there to extend my existing frames without taking anything away or messing with the bees too much?

    Will they be able to just continue the combs off the frames or will they immediately connect all those combs into one solid mess?

    I have just 2 hives at the moment. The average lows and highs in my area in the winter are about 13-30 Farenheit. So I am thinking having a larger uninterrupted comb might be helpful.

  10. #89
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hamilton, Alabama
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    2,998

    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    If you can get them to draw straight comb, which will be difficult, the bees will draw off the bottom bars and fill the area with comb. Work out a method of attaching foundation strips to the bottom of a few frames and the bees will do the rest. Much of the comb built will be drone size which means a hive full of drones each spring.
    NW Alabama, 50 years, 20 colonies and growing, sideliner, treatment free since 2005, 14 frame square Dadant broodnest

  11. #90
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Warren County, NJ, USA
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    533

    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    Quote Originally Posted by BernhardHeuvel View Post
    Being relatively close to the coast we have a more maritime but temperate climate. I am living a sheltered location, which is why we usually have here much warmer weather than in the rest of Germany. Plant hardiness zone is 7. (7b) Climate should be similar as in Philadelphia.

    Don't think climate matters much other than insulating the hive more in winter and needing more winter stores.
    thanks. i bet my winters are 20* colder than philly. a lot more snow for sure. have you any summer dearth?

    do you pay any mind to which direction (N, S, E, W) the void faces?

  12. #91
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    May 2016
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    Catskills, NY
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    276

    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    Will it be drone size regardless of the strain of bees I have, or anything else? I mean is that a fact? Why would the drone cells be bad anyway? Wouldn't they eventually fill whatever the cells they build with honey in the fall? I'm asking because I don't know.

    All I know is that when bees settle into someone's house or a tree in the woods they are unrestricted in what they can build and they seem to know exactly what they need to do to survive the winters, which they do. I'm just afraid if I do too much to "guide" my bees, it'll hurt them eventually.

  13. #92
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    Apr 2016
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    Dutchtown,Louisiana,USA
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    406

    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    Maybe you could cut a foundation groove in the bottom of the bottom bar and cut a strip of plastic the width you need. Notch the ends of the plastic and shoot a staple in on a 45 to hold the plastic up. That's how I use a strip of plastic in a regular frame for a starter strip

  14. #93
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    Apr 2016
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    Dutchtown,Louisiana,USA
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    406

    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    That's awesome brood frames Bernhard. A wintertime project will be to build a couple of those boxes. Maybe the right sized frames also if I feel sporty, those spacer buttons are cool. Would make frame construction a little less complicated it seems

  15. #94
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    May 2016
    Location
    Fayette County, Texas, USA
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    21

    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    To those of you who have built dadant deep hives, since 11 5/8" width, 3/4" thick lumber is not readily available, what material and/or construction methods are you using to get the material to 11 5/8" width? I don't think plywood is satisfactory.
    Harv - 3 langs, treating as needed

  16. #95
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    Apr 2016
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    Dutchtown,Louisiana,USA
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    406

    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    I'm gonna use 6by and 8by lumber for 2 separate bodies and splice together with a lifting cleat.

  17. #96
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    May 2016
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    Catskills, NY
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    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    Quote Originally Posted by dtrooster View Post
    Maybe you could cut a foundation groove in the bottom of the bottom bar and cut a strip of plastic the width you need. Notch the ends of the plastic and shoot a staple in on a 45 to hold the plastic up. That's how I use a strip of plastic in a regular frame for a starter strip
    That's a great idea. Wax foundation would be even easier to manipulate, albeit less strong. But my problem is that I'd have to be somehow sawing or otherwise notching the bottom bars of the frames somehow - that are full of bees and brood. That's why I'm looking for a less invasive method.

    Perhaps a strip of wax foundation that is held on by a mini frame that can be easily stapled to the ends of the bottom bars of my existing frames, so that the most disturbance the bees would have is 2 staples driven into the ends of the bottom frame bars. There would be a gap - the bottom bar and the top mini bar of these additional foundation strips that the bees would have to overcome, but if they can continue their existing comb into this new stuff, then I'd have a way to build a solid and seamless addition.

    Sound crazy?

  18. #97
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    Jan 2005
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    Hamilton, Alabama
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    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    Contact a sawmill for mill run lumber wider than 12 inches. Have it planed to 3/4 thickness. Cut to your hearts content.

    I found a sawmill that would run green cypress for $1.40 per foot. I would have to stack and dry and run it through a planer. That is why I was willing to pay $12.50 per cypress square deep cut and ready to assemble from an Amish guy 90 miles north. I had him make a total of 45 square deeps anticipating flaws in some of the wood.
    NW Alabama, 50 years, 20 colonies and growing, sideliner, treatment free since 2005, 14 frame square Dadant broodnest

  19. #98
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Clinton, Iowa
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    6,034

    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    I want to try the square Dadant hives pretty bad. Wish there was a place I could buy the boxes and frames. And foundation. I suppose I could cut down plastic foundation and make it work. I love the idea of those big, deep brood combs. It really comes down to box availability, though. There's no way I've got the time to custom make a bunch of equipment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion_power View Post
    Contact a sawmill for mill run lumber wider than 12 inches. Have it planed to 3/4 thickness. Cut to your hearts content.

    I found a sawmill that would run green cypress for $1.40 per foot. I would have to stack and dry and run it through a planer. That is why I was willing to pay $12.50 per cypress square deep cut and ready to assemble from an Amish guy 90 miles north. I had him make a total of 45 square deeps anticipating flaws in some of the wood.
    How do the Amish power their saws?

  20. #99
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    Apr 2016
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    Dutchtown,Louisiana,USA
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    406

    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    You'd have to go my route on new frames, no doubt. I put the foundation strip on the top bar before I assemble the frames. Not sure how you'd get wax to stay

  21. #100
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    Apr 2016
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    Dutchtown,Louisiana,USA
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    406

    Default Re: Hive designs and their advantages and disadvantages

    belt driven by a horse treadmill

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