How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance
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  1. #1
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    Question How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    Yesterday afternoon I found these swarm cells on one of my hives I think the queen is still in there b/c I found new eggs, you know like the grain of rice standing straight up in the cells... My queens are marked but I am having a heck of a time finding them b/c of all the bees these days as the colony builds up. So if I saw eggs is it likely the original queen is still in there? The swarm cells are obviously capped.



    So I don't want to lose bees and was thinking of trying a Taranov split. But I use hive top entrances and with 2 supers already on, it's pretty high? Do I need to have a board that reaches all the way to the hive entrance? cause that'll be like 4 feet high or so


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  3. #2
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    Default Re: How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    Apparently you can set the ramp up on the ground 10 feet or more away from the hive and the queen and non oriented bees will cluster under the lip of the ramp. The flying bees will return to your upper entrance.
    Frank

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    Default Re: How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    Crofter X 2

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    Default Re: How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    Crofter X 3

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    Default Re: How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    When I do mine I set the new hive on the ground with the board only going up the height of 1 deep hive body.
    When finished add whatever top you use.
    Maby you need to watch a few videos for clearer understanding of how to do a Taranov split.
    Zone 6b 1400'

  7. #6
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    Default Re: How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    I did watch a few videos, but none seemed to be with a hive top entrance. But in the videos I saw the board goes up to the old hive right? Then you take the cluster and put it into a new hive far enough away from original hive. Am i missing something?


    Quote Originally Posted by Hoot Owl Lane Bees View Post
    When I do mine I set the new hive on the ground with the board only going up the height of 1 deep hive body.
    When finished add whatever top you use.
    Maby you need to watch a few videos for clearer understanding of how to do a Taranov split.

  8. #7
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    Default Re: How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    Crofter for the win.
    But I'd be sure you have the queen... otherwise give them one of the frames with a cell (but they might still swarm?). No point in having a big ball of queenless nurse bees.

    Separate all of the measurements and precise dictation of most of the Taranov method stuff and forget it. Just shake them out and give them a ramp a little ways off the ground to cluster on/under. You'll be fine. The longer you wait the better chance of your queen and bees taking off (if they haven't already).

  9. #8
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    Default Re: How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    But to answer you original question
    Just like you would do with a bottom entrance

  10. #9
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    Default Re: How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    agree with crofter as well, Often times I don't even put the ramp in front of the originating hive, I just put it leaning onto the entrance of the new hive in the new hive location and shake them out. restrict your entrace a bit and it will be easier to spot your marked queen walking in. as when she gets up there they will part a little bit and let her walk right in. This stage of the game though since you aren't 100% sure the queen is still there, it would be best to at the very least give them a frame of eggs. so they can make a new queen if need be.

  11. #10
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    Default Re: How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    Quote Originally Posted by sakhoney View Post
    But to answer you original question
    Just like you would do with a bottom entrance
    The confusing part is that most of the "documentation" has very precise measurements 8" from entrance at same level, let them cluster for a certain amount of time, blah blah blah. I think that's fluff there to make people think they're doing something scientific. You do a Taranov shake (with queen cells) for one of two reasons 1) You've decided that you're going to let your bees do their thing and shake your swarms instead of letting them take off. It's not ideal, but it could be a valid form of management. 2) You were unsuccessful at swarm prevention.

    You could also do one to separate nurse bees for marching into a weaker hive, but in this case... with cells...
    Last edited by jwcarlson; 06-06-2016 at 12:35 PM.

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    Default Re: How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    Harley - he has 4 cells - If it were me - may want to cut one off and install as well? Just in case he misses the queen

  13. #12
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    Default Re: How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    Quote Originally Posted by sakhoney View Post
    Harley - he has 4 cells - If it were me - may want to cut one off and install as well? Just in case he misses the queen
    he very well could that is why I said "at least" put in eggs. the thing I would be concerned about is if that thing hatches and takes off on a mating flight before they really get any comb building going, they may just take right off with her. I personally would probably put a frame of eggs in there and check back in 48 hrs and if they are starting cups see if any cells were left, and if so place one...... if he thinks the queen is still there there is a good chance they are freshly capped. The other cells I'd put in a little 2-3 frame mating nuc just to increase my chances of getting a mated queen. I hate to waste queen cells.

  14. #13
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    Default Re: How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    As well as I - never know what she would turn out like

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    Default Re: How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    I put 2 frames of brood in the new hive body and they walk in and down almost every time.
    Zone 6b 1400'

  16. #15
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    Default Re: How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    Where are all the bees? For a hive that is about to swarm it seems rather vacant. Seeing some eggs is a bit perplexing but I have had two occasions where I mistook a supercedure for a swarm. The last one the queen was still laying a bit but finally caught on to the clue that a lot of worker brood size cells had bullet drones in them. I had capped cells, one cell opened from the bottom, and eggs! At that point I do not know if the old lady was still alive but it was a puzzling situation. I will go back in a couple of weeks and see what is going on.
    Frank

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    Default Re: How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    Good point. I brushed and smoke them off so I could take the photo




    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    Where are all the bees? For a hive that is about to swarm it seems rather vacant. Seeing some eggs is a bit perplexing but I have had two occasions where I mistook a supercedure for a swarm. The last one the queen was still laying a bit but finally caught on to the clue that a lot of worker brood size cells had bullet drones in them. I had capped cells, one cell opened from the bottom, and eggs! At that point I do not know if the old lady was still alive but it was a puzzling situation. I will go back in a couple of weeks and see what is going on.

  18. #17
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    Default Re: How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    Thanks for all the help, so my plan is to leave the some of the swarm cells in the old hive location. I will also leave brood and eggs with them.

    According to this video, you don't need to find the queen for the split, who knows? So much conflicting info these days in beekeeping:

    https://www.youtube.com/embed/ETgWMMZr4So






    Quote Originally Posted by Harley Craig View Post
    he very well could that is why I said "at least" put in eggs. the thing I would be concerned about is if that thing hatches and takes off on a mating flight before they really get any comb building going, they may just take right off with her. I personally would probably put a frame of eggs in there and check back in 48 hrs and if they are starting cups see if any cells were left, and if so place one...... if he thinks the queen is still there there is a good chance they are freshly capped. The other cells I'd put in a little 2-3 frame mating nuc just to increase my chances of getting a mated queen. I hate to waste queen cells.

  19. #18
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    Default Re: How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    typically you wouldn't need to find the queen because she is shaken out. But this is TYPICALLY done pre queen cell cap when you know the queen is still in there. If you are 100 % sure the queen is still in there shake every frame out minus the ones with queen cells, those get a brush so you don't knock the larva off the jelly bed and don't look back, they will start a new colony.

  20. #19
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    Default Re: How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    What are the chances she's still in there if I saw eggs yesterday?


    Quote Originally Posted by Harley Craig View Post
    typically you wouldn't need to find the queen because she is shaken out. But this is TYPICALLY done pre queen cell cap when you know the queen is still in there. If you are 100 % sure the queen is still in there shake every frame out minus the ones with queen cells, those get a brush so you don't knock the larva off the jelly bed and don't look back, they will start a new colony.

  21. #20
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    Default Re: How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance

    If you saw eggs that just means she's been there in the last 3 days how close you watched them the last 3 days?

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