Oxalic acid fogger - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger

    Quote Originally Posted by RAK View Post
    Imo oxalic acid strips are the best. Currently testing them and amazing results.
    Are you talking about the oxalic acid glycerin strips?

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  3. #22
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    charleston, wv, usa
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger

    Do a search for a thread from 2005 called "oxalic acid in a fogger", gives mixture ratios https://www.beesource.com/forums/show...ID-IN-A-FOGGER
    "SERENITY is realizing that the bees know what they are doing, even when you don't..."--thenance007

  4. #23
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger

    Quote Originally Posted by hex0rz View Post
    Are you talking about the oxalic acid glycerin strips?
    yes.

  5. #24
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger

    Quote Originally Posted by RAK View Post
    yes.
    What information are you using to do this with? I have read a little on it, but I thought the efficacy was low..

  6. #25
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger

    Can't go in the details. I might be selling these strips soon.

  7. #26
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger

    Anthony, I will give you a call once we go through round number 2. Know of any beekeepers that have mite infested bees? My bees are low on mites to begin with.

  8. #27
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger

    I don't have any now but may this fall... I would be interested to learn more. Are you making them?
    Last edited by newred; 05-22-2016 at 12:50 AM.

  9. #28
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger

    Quote Originally Posted by RAK View Post
    Anthony, I will give you a call once we go through round number 2. Know of any beekeepers that have mite infested bees? My bees are low on mites to begin with.
    Looking forward to it!

  10. #29
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    Dec 2010
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    Walters, MN USA
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger

    Quote Originally Posted by Nabber86 View Post
    Sounds like a scene from Breaking Bad.
    Smart alec response aside. The Varomor unit works and the treatment formulas are effective.
    What I like is that this gives alternative 'recipes' that hopefully help in decreasing the varroa building up resistance to using the same OA cocktail all the time.

    It's not humour.
    It just works.

  11. #30
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    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger

    Varoa becoming resistant to OA is like a roach becoming resistant to being stomped on

  12. #31
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    Aylett, Virginia
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger



    For the mites to become resistant, OA would have to be poisonous to them. It is not. My understanding is that it dissolves their feet and they essentially bleed out. Can't cite a source for that though.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  13. #32
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger

    While the internet is full of such legends, the work on it is showing outher wize

    Toufailia ET AL 2018 Towards integrated control of varroa: 4) varroa mortality from treating broodless winter colonies twice with oxalic acid via sublimation
    2nd broodless OAV killed about 35% less mites
    "combined varroa mortality was very high, 99.4%, with greater mortality from the first, 98.3%, than the second, 64.1%, application"
    so for what ever reason, Resistance can and does happen... weather or not its inheritable may be another story.

  14. #33
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    Santa Cruz, CA USA
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger

    Here is a fogger video with mixing instructions.
    I don’t think you can “dose” with any accuracy using these forgers. Does dosing matter?

    https://youtu.be/VQSMheVizGg
    Last edited by Andhors; 08-05-2019 at 10:42 AM.

  15. #34
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    While the internet is full of such legends, the work on it is showing outher wize

    Toufailia ET AL 2018 Towards integrated control of varroa: 4) varroa mortality from treating broodless winter colonies twice with oxalic acid via sublimation
    2nd broodless OAV killed about 35% less mites
    "combined varroa mortality was very high, 99.4%, with greater mortality from the first, 98.3%, than the second, 64.1%, application"
    so for what ever reason, Resistance can and does happen... weather or not its inheritable may be another story.
    msl, I'm not sure I understand what you are claiming about what the results of this study represent. There were only 2 OAV treatments administered 2 weeks apart. Are you suggesting that mites built a significant resistance to OAV after a single treatment?

  16. #35
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    While the internet is full of such legends, the work on it is showing outher wize

    Toufailia ET AL 2018 Towards integrated control of varroa: 4) varroa mortality from treating broodless winter colonies twice with oxalic acid via sublimation
    2nd broodless OAV killed about 35% less mites
    "combined varroa mortality was very high, 99.4%, with greater mortality from the first, 98.3%, than the second, 64.1%, application"
    so for what ever reason, Resistance can and does happen... weather or not its inheritable may be another story.
    I'd suggest that the lower percentage figure may be a statistical artifact rather than indicating resistance, as the number of surviving mites was very small indeed: "The mean number surviving was 6 (range 218)."

    If resistance was considered to have occurred, then I'm sure the authors would have highlighted this - instead they concluded:
    Overall, the results indicate that double application of OA is worthwhile to beekeepers in varroa management. It is not harmful to colonies and by killing c. 99.5% of the varroa it reduces varroa populations to such an extent that 78 doublings, which would take more than one year, are needed to build back to the original level.
    The double application being referred to of course, being performed during an 'essentially broodless' winter period.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  17. #36
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger

    Since writing the above, I've managed to track down the original work - which was a PhD thesis submitted to the University of Sussex (UK): https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/42579622.pdf

    Regarding the lower figure from the 2nd treatment, the author writes:
    Varroa mortality from the second OA treatment was lower than in the first, 87.2 v 96.8%. This difference is significant (P<0.001). We do not know why the second application was less effective than the first although there are several possibilities. One possible explanation, which would merit further research, is that some varroa are genetically resistant to OA. However, some mites may be less affected due to phenotypic differences that are non-genetic, such as due to age (Kirrane et al, 2012). It is possible that some mites consistently chose more protected phoretic locations on a host bee, or remain on a single host bee that is less contacted by the oxalic acid fumes perhaps because it consistently remains in a location that receives a lower dose of oxalic acid fumes. The final possibility would require that mites remain on the same host bee across the 2 week treatment period. There are currently no data on how frequently phoretic varroa mites change their host bee in broodless colonies, or whether particular bees may consistently be located in parts of the hive more or less contactable by OA fumes from sublimation.
    Quite a few options there to choose from.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  18. #37
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger

    as I ended with
    Resistance can and does happen... weather or not its inheritable may be another story.
    Were I was going was when some one says "this is OA's mode of action" or "resistance to OA can't happen" they are in the relm of specuation, not sisistific fact

  19. #38
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    as I ended with


    Were I was going was when some one says "this is OA's mode of action" or "resistance to OA can't happen" they are in the relm of specuation, not sisistific fact
    Fair. Thanks for clarifying.

  20. #39
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger

    I think I may have a explanation for the second (lower percentage) figures. In the introduction to this guy's thesis - which is crammed full of useful info, btw, and well-worth reading - he writes:

    Chapter 8: Towards integrated control of varroa: Monitoring honey bee brood rearing in winter and the proportion of varroa in small patches of sealed cells.

    This shows that December is the month with the least brood. However, winter reduction in brood rearing varied among years and even in December some colonies still had sealed brood. Although the amounts of sealed brood were low, even a small patch of c. 500-600 sealed cells could contain 14% of the varroa in a colony.
    The amount of sealed brood in December 2015 was particularly high, both in the proportion of colonies with sealed brood (52%) and in the number of sealed brood cells (mean = 788 336) in the colonies with brood. This was almost certainly due to the warm conditions in autumn and early winter.
    Now the assessments of the effectiveness of OA vapourisation (i.e. the kill rate) were made 2 weeks after each application, and so during this 2 weeks at least some of that brood will have emerged - along with any live varroa mites which will have been hidden and thus protected within those brood cells.

    These emerging mites will have distorted the experimental results - because - in percentage terms, the greater the overall number of mites present, the less this 'contaminating' figure of additional mites will have been - and conversely - it will have disproportionately 'contaminated' the figures from the reduced number of mites resulting from the second treatment. QED.

    And - if there had been a 3rd treatment, then the percentage figures for 'effectiveness' would have been even lower - because the 'experimental contamination' of mites from emerging brood would have been proportionately higher, viz-a-viz the overall mite drop.

    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  21. #40
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    Default Re: Oxalic acid fogger

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    Varoa becoming resistant to OA is like a roach becoming resistant to being stomped on
    That's a pretty bold statement without providing any peer-reviewed basis.
    In other words, I'll wish you well, but listen to those backing up their claims.

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