German Black Bees; any left in the USA? - Page 3
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 75
  1. #41
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Vernon, AZ. USA
    Posts
    627

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    Juvenile diabetes is much more prevalent than before the production of commercial insulin. Now, those afflicted live long enough to breed. This is a classic example, of the creepy basis of human eugenics. It's the other side of medical intervention. It's however , quite cruel, to let nature just run it's course, if we have an option. For bees, or people. Who'd return to the days of 50% or more infant mortality?

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #42
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Chardon, Ohio
    Posts
    689

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by jadebees View Post
    Juvenile diabetes is much more prevalent than before the production of commercial insulin. Now, those afflicted live long enough to breed. This is a classic example, of the creepy basis of human eugenics. It's the other side of medical intervention. It's however , quite cruel, to let nature just run it's course, if we have an option. For bees, or people. Who'd return to the days of 50% or more infant mortality?
    So, now you invent a new malady. Hereditary juvenile diabetes. I suggest you look up just how hereditable juvenile diabetes actually is. Identical twin studies show it to be very nearly non-hereditary. Also, it clearly is NOT more common today than it was before insulin. It may be more diagnosed, but that does not make it more common.

    Adult onset diabetes on the other hand is extremely hereditary. But, also mainly a result of defective lifestyle at the dinner table and between meals calorie burn level.

    Allowing a hive to die with the idea you are breeding stronger bees is simply nuts. The bees that die are workers that do not pass on their genetics. The solution is not to allow the hive to die. The solution is to treat the problem and requeen with good genetics. By and large those good genetics are going to come from professional breeders and are available today. My very favorite bee activity is killing sub standard queens and replacing them with queens raised from good genetics. And, not all queens raised from good genetics are good queens with good genetics. I kill half the queens I raise because there is something about them I do not like. Were I really serious about it I would kill more like 90% of the queens I raise.

    I had one hive out of 17 to 20 die last year at some point depending on how you count hives. The one that died was my fault because I did not kill the queen and replace her like I knew I should have done. I treated each hive once for mites last spring and treated one hive for EFB last July. What was your record like? By the way, my production hives are putting nectar in honey supers that are on top of three deep 10 frame brood boxes right now and fruit bloom still has not started here.

    Dick

  4. #43
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Vernon, AZ. USA
    Posts
    627

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    Relax, Mr.C. I'm not inventing anything.
    Why are you so offended by my comment? None of it was personally directed at you. Though i don't understand the relevance, I kill about 75% of all the queens i get here. Each hive is productive. No one grows fruit here.
    If you had read to my context, your comprehension may have increased, til you saw that I was indeed not advocating the things you seem offended by.

    Get a grip on that handle.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Wilkesboro, North Carolina
    Posts
    38

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    My point exactly bees made it millions of years with out us, I do agree that some point we may have to step in to help, but evolution is not possible with out the chance to do so.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Wilkesboro, North Carolina
    Posts
    38

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    How do you think those breeder got those good genetics? For example if they are varroa resistance do you think they treated till no more mites ever again?

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,640

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cryberg View Post
    ...
    Allowing a hive to die ...

    Dick
    Dick, the thread is about possible existence (or not) so called "black German bees" - how your comment related to the subject? I think, you mixed up with TF. In my opinion, negligence is different from thoughtful management so the subject can have a normal life without regular medication. For instance, improving the immune system shall cause less viral diseases. In this sense, destroying immune system is negligence (crime!). Improving immune system - is beneficial to everyone. It is well known, that pollution and stress affect immune system drastically - made your own conclusion.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    2,555

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    The black bees, apis mellifera mellifera, though hardy, are fairly susceptible to brood diseases and thus are believed to be very rare in North America, though many have been out-crossed with Italian and other races (subspecies) of honeybees.

    An ambitious researcher could do a genome test of some likely suspect colonies.

    They are notably defensive, and thus considered by most difficult to work. They are know to fly out in colder temperatures than Italians, and reports of their productivity mostly reflects these conditions. Italians generally produce far more honey than Black bees after it warms up in the late Spring. That, coupled with the generally more docile behavior, caused a mad rush amongst American beekeepers to buy, sell, and raise Italian queens starting about 1881.

    They were considered a nuisance in the early 1900's, and some beekeepers actively captured and re-queened Black bee colonies. By the 1950's, beekeeping had grown into a respectable trade of commercial proportions, only to get fully industrial strength by the 1980's. Great numbers of swarms escaping from these and small-scale operations have largely bred the Black bees out of the pure bloodlines. Some may still exist, but think about the chances of an area unmolested by commercial beekeepers supporting a continuous population of Black bees in North America - it is highly unlikely now in 2016, especially after the introduction of tracheal and varroa mites. Most likely you'll see some tainted with at least a little bit of Italian, or other race of honeybee.

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,610

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    I don't see that they were considered defensive until after they started bringing in Italians and got F1 crosses... but yes some of those were vicious.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Torrington, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    673

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    KiloCharlie;

    Thank you for this good information. I do realize, as well as the responses from others as they seem to agree, that the chances are very slim that a hive of pure black Bees could exist in North America.

    My curiosity was peaked by the fact that this old homestead is many, many miles from anything, and from any type of forest or dwelling in which bees could colonize as they split and spread across country; unless they somehow made it across the prairie by some other means. The homestead dates back into the late 1800s when the Black Bee could have been brought here by the folks that originally settle on the open plains in Wyoming. The elderly lady I spoke with was born at the homestead, and her dad was said to have dealt with the bees for as long as she could recall.

    I am not aware of how far colonies can actually travel (across a prairie) when they swarm, so it is hard to say if they could mix with other colonies when they are so far removed from possible hive opportunities. That is what made me wonder if these could be an actual Black Bee. I have not seen them yet as it has been too cold. They lady recalls them being "black" when they swarmed once; although she was very young then.

    As they have swarmed over the years, it seems they have spread into some of the trees at the homestead, but these seem to be the only trees for miles around and were probably planted in the 1800s as a wind break. I have seen, inside the old house, where honey has dripped down through the ceiling and stained it. The home is no longer livable, so extraction shouldn't be too difficult. When it warms up, I will check them out.

    Anyway, this scenario is why I am curious as to whether these could, in fact, be original blacks; brought to America way back when and secluded enough to not mix with other breeds. Just wondering.
    No one famous.

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Franklin, Ma
    Posts
    231

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    Miller compound Honeybees and agriculture has some Black Mountain Bees. Nice looking girls

    https://www.facebook.com/Miller-Comp...6954971040510/

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    7,861

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    Yes, those are the carnis origin.
    It is hard to tell just by its color--carnis, buckfast, Russians, AMM, etc.
    You have to genetic test them to confirm.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  13. #52

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    Send me samples. I know some black bee experts that I can forward them to. For both visual and genetic testing. I reckon they would be very thrilled if there really are some of the original black bees left out there.

  14. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    7,861

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    In the U.K. they have some original black bees.
    There is a group formed in an effort to keep them alive.
    Try a net search for them will show you this group. We cannot
    import the foreign bees except from Canada.
    http://www.theguardian.com/environme...red-in-britain
    Here is the group at : http://www.biobees.com/blackbees.php
    Last edited by beepro; 05-01-2016 at 09:41 PM.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  15. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Torrington, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    673

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    BernhardHeuvel; If they look to be Blacks, I will contact you. Thanks.
    No one famous.

  16. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    7,861

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    How are you going to arrange the shipping?
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  17. #56
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Louisville, kentucky
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    Where do you send bees for genetic testing? I found a ferral hive with dark slighlty aggresive bees.

  18. #57
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Baden Wurtemburg Germany
    Posts
    560

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    Friedrich Ruttner explains how to distinguish between races using various methods in Breading techniques and selection for breeding of the Honeybee.
    Stephen 40+ hives. 6th year. Treat. Germany.

  19. #58
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    2,555

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    BW - That is the kind of place that one could hope to find an isolated, breeding population without extra-racial "contamination".

    A place the commercials avoid, neglect, overlook, or have other reason to not choose. Mere remoteness may not cut it, but it probably does not hurt - few roads would perhaps help even more. A long, wide boundary (perhaps >50 miles) of nectarless, pollenless, hostile country would be a requirement. I'm thinking a remote canyon in Northern mountains, where few bees overwinter.

    Definitely send off a few samples for the testing. That could be a valuable stock to keep going - they are certainly "survivor" stock.

  20. #59
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Catskills, NY
    Posts
    276

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    There's a saying...which I think cerezha will confirm: (people who live longer) don't live longer, they suffer longer.

    Just to throw it out there for you antibiotics and modern medicine advocates to gobble up

  21. #60
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,640

    Default Re: German Black Bees; any left in the USA?

    Sorry ABK, I slightly "edit" your sentence:
    Quote Originally Posted by ABK View Post
    ... people who live longer...., they suffer longer...
    Another saying is that who is healthy, that person will have healthy death!

    I saw a full-size movie on youtube about German bee program. They have facility on remote island and people sent their virgin queens for insemination at the island. They have a whole detailed protocol. I do not remember was it German black bee or some other valuable lineage? They also have elaborate all-country wide program to select varroa-resistant colonies.
    Серёжа, Sergey

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •