The Beeinformed Survey Is Now Taking Answers -- Please Complete It - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: The Beeinformed Survey Is Now Taking Answers -- Please Complete It

    I agree. The survey asks what the cause of your losses were as if it could be simply relegated to a single cause or that the beekeeper is even qualified to make a diagnosis and of course CCD is one of the choices. I put down varroa simply because I have consistently seen a pretty close correlation between treatment times and effectiveness and hive strength/survival. But of course we used to lose hives pre-varroa as well. Often losses are because of a queen failure which have clearly become more of a problem post varroa but was certainly a lesser problem pre-varroa as well.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

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  3. #22
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: The Beeinformed Survey Is Now Taking Answers -- Please Complete It

    Quote Originally Posted by wildbranch2007 View Post
    my mistook I thought this comment was in regard to people actually manipulating the data
    What I meant by "How long does it take BIP to get people to track these numbers?" was beekeepers. How long does it take for BIP to get beekeepers in the habit of noticing and taking note of that which BIP wants data about?
    Mark Berninghausen

  4. #23
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    Dec 2008
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    syracuse n.y.
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    Default Re: The Beeinformed Survey Is Now Taking Answers -- Please Complete It

    now if you had gotten an email in March after completing the survey previously and the heading was as below, would you assume that there was a regional report

    email dated Mar 17 at 5:41 PM

    HiveCheck
    REGION REPORTS

    HiveCheck 2.0 Results
    We've just published last weeks results in the Results Section of the HiveCheck 2.0 platform to see interactive HiveCheck Reports that you can sort by Region and State!

    now maybe the email they are sending isn't the correct one? why did they send it to me if I hadn't filled out the questionnaire? so many questions so few answers.
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  5. #24
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    Dec 2011
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    Olmsted County, MN USA
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    Default Re: The Beeinformed Survey Is Now Taking Answers -- Please Complete It

    It's not a particularly user-friendly survey. They're asking questions in April that required a detailed level of documentation from 9-12 months earlier. In June, I'm not thinking about what the next year's BIP survey will be asking. Thus I inevitably get part way through the survey, find I'm making up data from my recollection and not from my records, so I bail.
    Christian (Chris) Schad
    Website: TheBeeShed.com, Facebook: The Bee Shed

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: The Beeinformed Survey Is Now Taking Answers -- Please Complete It

    How is a survey of Hive Losses and Management Practices supposed to determine Best Management Practices?
    Mark Berninghausen

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Rensselaer County, NY, USA
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    5,536

    Default Re: The Beeinformed Survey Is Now Taking Answers -- Please Complete It

    @wildbranch;

    Do you realize that NY (the whole state) is no longer part of the Northeast results, but is now lumped into the mid-atlantic category? So your results may be there, but not where you (and I and every body in upstate and western NY who thinks of themselves as being in the northeast) might look for it.

    I've been round, and round, and round with them about this but they are just stuck on the fact that Southeastern NY has the same climate as NJ and PA and MD., more or less. It's an absurdity. My climate is far more like yours, or Mike Palmer's or SQCRK's than to some beek in Philly.

    They launched an interesting regional bee-yard activity geograpically-based discussion group(s) thing last year, but won't allow me to subscribe and participate in the Northeastern one, only the mid-atlantic group which is completely useless for me. And they wanted money for the subscription. Phooey!

    And to add annoyance to vexation, it was partly because I pointed out to them that downstate NY (and LI) had a climate similar to NJ and PA that started it all. So they migrated the whole state to the mid-atlantic area and are apparently holding it hostage. I am really, really, sorry I had anything to do with the suggestion.

    Enj.

  8. #27
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    Dec 2008
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    syracuse n.y.
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    Default Re: The Beeinformed Survey Is Now Taking Answers -- Please Complete It

    Quote Originally Posted by enjambres View Post
    @wildbranch;

    Do you realize that NY (the whole state) is no longer part of the Northeast results, but is now lumped into the mid-atlantic category? So your results may be there, but not where you (and I and every body in upstate and western NY who thinks of themselves as being in the northeast) might look for it.

    .
    didn't realize that they moved us, but I used the national data to figure out my data was missing. finally confirmed by them today, but where did it go? No problem to me, I just went and deleted all emails, and unsubscribe, so they can put us in North Dakota(no offense to ND) if they like. I originally liked the BIP articles the were in the bee magazines, they did one on pesticides in pollen that they had collected, said they would publish the data when they were done. Unless I missed reading the magazine it was published in, I'm still waiting. They started out with a flourish, now seem to be floundering.
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  9. #28
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: The Beeinformed Survey Is Now Taking Answers -- Please Complete It

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    How is a survey of Hive Losses and Management Practices supposed to determine Best Management Practices?
    They do ask what percentage of bees you treated on what month and with what treatment.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  10. #29
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    Jun 2013
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    Rensselaer County, NY, USA
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    Default Re: The Beeinformed Survey Is Now Taking Answers -- Please Complete It

    Well, my grumpiness proved to be premature because I got an email from BIP arranging for me to re-start my in-progress survey, and finished it successfully this time.

    I think it's worth the time.

    The new regional group thing I was talking about (with NY lumped into the mid-Atlantic region) is Hive-Check. I was quite excited to learn about it, but it proved useless to me because I am not in the mid-Atlantic region, vegetation-, weather-, or culturally-wise. Humpf!

    Enj.

  11. #30
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: The Beeinformed Survey Is Now Taking Answers -- Please Complete It

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    They do ask what percentage of bees you treated on what month and with what treatment.
    What makes anything anyone does a Best Management Practice that would apply to anyone else? Is the survey supposed to come up with a concensus list of BMPs?
    Mark Berninghausen

  12. #31
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    Default Re: The Beeinformed Survey Is Now Taking Answers -- Please Complete It

    I listened to Dr VanEngledorps interpretation of some of the data at a recent national convention. He felt their were pretty clear corollations between management practices. He said treated bees suffered fewer losses than non treated and the best success of all groups (at least in terms of fewest losses) were migratory operations that had treated their bees only twice. Interestingly enough losses didn't decrease with more than 2 mite treatments. Those were his interpretations anyway.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  13. #32
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    Feb 2009
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    Bunker Hill, IL
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    Default Re: The Beeinformed Survey Is Now Taking Answers -- Please Complete It

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    They don't require an answer for every question. When I got to the section where they ask what percentage of time is spent on various beekeeping activities I decided it would be better to not answer than to start making stuff up.
    I looked at it as an exercise for myself. I started by saying how many hours do i spend a week in the hives. I settled on 1 hr. with 50 hrs a year.

    I then thought about how long it takes me to extract honey and before i had done the math i ballparked 10%. turns out if i spend 6 hrs extracting honey, then my ballpark guess was about right.

    I used a high number for "other" because i spend a lot of time working on woodenware. especially the last few years when ive been focused on trying to grow. (2 hives to 4, 4 to 8 etc)

    What makes anything anyone does a Best Management Practice that would apply to anyone else? Is the survey supposed to come up with a concensus list of BMPs?
    with a large enough data set (as indicated in the survey, 10+ years) you can make certain statements that would reflect the best outcome if followed.

    for example a result that might be stated in the future may read something like
    based on the data we collected, those that treated with OAV twice a year between ___ and ____ were 1.8 times as likely to have a hive overwinter.

    Those types of statements are rolled together to make a group of which are then called best management practices.

    A step beyond that is to take the BMPs and the WMPs and perform a proper scientific type study, useing 100's of hives. The hope is that the hives that had BMPs practiced on them mirror the success rates the large data set also shows.

    That is usually the last step before "certifying" xyz is in fact a BMP.
    Last edited by schmism; 04-05-2016 at 04:21 PM.

  14. #33
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    Nov 2006
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    Tulsa, OK
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    Default Re: The Beeinformed Survey Is Now Taking Answers -- Please Complete It

    The people doing this survey have a pretty tough task, so cut them some slack.

    The information they've gathered already provides some helpful guidance about some things.

    I'd suggest that people do the best they can and don't answer where it would amount to making things up. Also, just because the answers are wrong does not make them totally useless. They could indicate a lack of knowledge. For example, if people who don't treat for varroa show significantly greater losses (and they do) but attribute fewer losses to varroa, that could suggest that they don't know PMS when they see it, which is a problem in itself.

    I can't explain why NY would be lumped in with the mid-Atlantic states. I also gave them some suggestions on the questions. For example, they don't show catching swarms as a way to make increase in the very first part, but that's how I increase hive counts most of the time. I make honey with the few hives I have in production mode, so I don't like to make splits. I do other things to prevent swarms from my own hives.

  15. #34
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    Dec 2008
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    syracuse n.y.
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    Default Re: The Beeinformed Survey Is Now Taking Answers -- Please Complete It

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilV View Post
    The people doing this survey have a pretty tough task, so cut them some slack.
    I did 6 months to answer the first emails, that's well beyond the limit of my patients.
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

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