Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment
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  1. #1
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    Default Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    I was looking into the Oxalic treatment line dribble vs. sublimation and trying to figure what would be more beneficial for me in the long run.
    Pro's and con's with both methods, really wishing there was a third option when: http://link.springer.com/article/10....592-015-0405-7

    Yes, I could purchase the paper, but I'm big, I can admit: I'm cheap-
    If you look diligently, Randy Oliver mentions this as a potential, and possibly strong option. ?!

    Anyone out there have the Beta on it?

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    So how do you make the strips? 2 on top and 2 in between boxes? Would love to here some more information, I would be willing to try it.

  4. #3
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    Default Re: Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    My understanding is they are basic single layer cardboard, soaked in the solution. cut maybe 10in long and an inch wide, bend them over a frame and have them hang down between frame spaces (I presume like an Apistan strip). It seems simple, and no wet bees or scorched wood.


    But I would want to know more- ESPECIALLY mix ratios and application time.

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    Me too, if you find anything please post it

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    Interesting. It's like a apivar? How does this really treat them? Is it temperature sensitive like MAQS?

    More information it's needed by me than just that article...

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    "Dispensing O.A. in cellulose strips, without water presence but only with
    crystals of organic acid gives unsatisfactory results especially when the level of humidity
    inside the nest is not sufficient to moisten the O.A. crystals.
    Conclusions
    Oxalic acid soaked in cellulose strips did not give acceptable varroa control under spring conditions in central Italy.
    Control was better for winter treatments under broodless conditions. The reason for its poor efficacy is possibly due to the modality action of O.A.
    This paper also has shown the trickling and the evaporation of O.A. are the most effective ways of it to control varroa (Graph 2)."

    So if you somehow can make the oa powder fine enough to stick on the bees then you might have a winner.
    I wonder what is its effectiveness if you can combine the fine sugar and oa powder together to shake on the bees?
    Could potato powder or any other tuber powder works with the oa powder mixed in? Will agar powder harm the bees too?
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  8. #7
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    Default Re: Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    Let's say you used oa in a powder and did a type of dusting would the oa eventually become inert or somehow be removed from the hive. I think if a person could get the oa to remain suspended in mineral oil you could possibly fog them, but the oa Crystals settle out to quickly

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    Trying to revert to chemistry from 25+ yrs ago... OA mixed with glycene (an ester) and heated to 180 F= a gas you DON"T WANT in your house and ......Formic Acid.

    But, Efficacy on mites while brood was present (this was a summer study) averaged 93.1%, with no residual in comb or honey.
    "At the beginning of the experiment, the new formulation
    were applied to the treatment group. Aluen Cap treatment
    consists of four strips U-shaped. The matrix of these
    strips is composed of cellulose (45 cm×3 cm×1.5 mm);
    each one contains 10 g of OA mixed with 20 mL of
    glycerin. Each strip was placed astride on frames 2, 4, 6,
    and 8 of the brood chamber (Figure 1)."

    There is no information on mix procedure or strip impregnation procedure.

    I did find a news release here:http://news.agropages.com/News/NewsDetail---13105.htm

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    This post got me intrigued to do some Google-Fu and I found this on making strips:

    http://teca.fao.org/comment/2319#comment-2319



    FWIW and YMMV

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    Dups!
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  12. #11
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    Default Re: Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    They were talking about the winter treatment.
    Then "....beekeeping season. Then if we check there are not varroa in the colonies at the end of winter it is better to wait up to the time to add suppers to add some strips if it is necessary."

    So they are not following the EPA's recommendation about adding the supers and
    using the oa strips at the same time. It is still an experiment so proceed with
    caution. Not sure how strong is a 600 g of oa powder? And how do we get the
    glycerin anyway? Anybody trying this experiment out?
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  13. #12
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    Default Re: Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by zonedar View Post
    This post got me intrigued to do some Google-Fu and I found this on making strips:

    http://teca.fao.org/comment/2319#comment-2319



    FWIW and YMMV
    Great find. Interestingly, the photo provided on pg. 3 (from the link) is the same photo Randy Oliver uses. I wonder if he is the friend in the north eluded to in the efficacy study.

    I'll tell ya, my one hive has gotten feisty enough, I'm getting ready to try this experiment on them!

    "So they are not following the EPA's recommendation about adding the supers and
    using the oa strips at the same time." Well, Beepro, as they are in Argentina I don't believe the U.S. EPA has much sway with them. However, I do understand your point. How many in the U.S. were vaporizing before it was labeled for use and/or in their State? It is considered an organic based treatment.
    Last edited by Outdoor N8; 04-30-2016 at 01:26 PM.

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    I believe this treatment will work. Been thinking about
    this for awhile now. But don't know how to use the glycerine.
    Pretty soon a product like this will be on the market here.
    I do use it after the Autumn flow and just before the Spring flow
    when needed. But not when the honey supers are on. It is better to
    follow the EPA recommendation to not contaminate the honey even though this
    is the safest organic treatment so far.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  15. #14
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    Default Re: Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    There are two types of glycerin. Vegetable and Propylene propylene is a byproduct of oil industry suppose identical to vegetable chemically ? Vegetable glycerin is available at most drug stores.. if any of you are using or have used E-cigs. you are inhaling the stuff. You can also get it from e-cig stores.

    Thinking about experimenting with this. One concern I did find bees dying during dry season they think the bees use the strips for moisture.

  16. #15
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    Default Re: Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    You can also find food grade vegetable based glycerin on Amazon.

  17. #16
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    Default Re: Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    Thanks for the tips. During the summer dearth I will switch the treatment
    plan to using my homemade oav gadget when brood rearing is
    at their lowest. You can also put a jar of water on the top bars too.
    So these strips are better for the Autumn and winter management.
    You can also put a jar of water on the top bars too.
    My concern is whether or not the ratio is too potent for this mixture?
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  18. #17
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    Default Re: Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    Conclusions
    Oxalic acid soaked in cellulose strips did not give acceptable varroa control under spring conditions in central Italy.


    So if you somehow can make the oa powder fine enough to stick on the bees then you might have a winner.
    I wonder what is its effectiveness if you can combine the fine sugar and oa powder together to shake on the bees?
    Could potato powder or any other tuber powder works with the oa powder mixed in? Will agar powder harm the bees too?
    I'm thinking Cellulose strips soaked in OA is more accurate.

    I did have an interesting thought concerning the later comment. How do you get OA to a fine powder? you vaporize it. So what about hanging cellulose strips (think photographic film) in a box and vaporize oa in it. powder will coat the cellulose. strips I think would have to be handled with much care to prevent rubbing the powder off though. pre treated strips as opposed to just vaporizing a hive in my opinion.
    Everything gets darker, as it goes to where there is less light. Darrel Tank (5PM drawing instructor)

  19. #18
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    Default Re: Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    I will have to look at the article again but I am pretty sure the quote from Italy posted by beepro. Was talking about mixing OA and water to soak the strips? Not the glycerin. Glycerin is hygroscopic and will stay moist for quite a while.

  20. #19
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    Default Re: Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by CrMax View Post
    I will have to look at the article again but I am pretty sure the quote from Italy posted by beepro. Was talking about mixing OA and water to soak the strips? Not the glycerin. Glycerin is hygroscopic and will stay moist for quite a while.
    Yes, in the Argentine study, they kept the mix soaked strips in the HB for 42 days and still had mite falls.

  21. #20
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    Default Re: Oxalic/glycerin on cellulose mite treatment

    No, I have experimented with the water + oa powder (oap) that did not work
    out too well. Water is too inert with the oap and cannot be mixed together. The oa powder simply
    sank to the bottom while the water is at the top portion. So I
    don't know another way to distill the active ingredient from the oap that I can use with the
    cardboard to soak it up. Every time I tried to get some oap on the wet cardboard it would
    slide off. My conclusion is to get some type of a sticky gooey materials. The glycerin came up
    at the right time here.
    As for blowing the powder on the strip, the oa crystals have a very short life span. Before they can
    get on the bees they might be dissolved already inside the hive. So it cannot be pick up by the bees that
    effectively. During the oav burn process, lots of bees (picture the white ghosts) got covered with these white oa crystals. On the strips the oa crystals are too thin to get on the bees. Oh, the bees will fan while in the oav process to further distribute the oa crystals through out the hive too. Using water and blowing the oa crystals onto the strips simply cannot work that well. Let me know if you have experimented with another method that has better result than the glycerine.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

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