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Thread: Lost Them!!!

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Gorham,maine
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    sorry to hear about your loss, so far this year i lost 3 as well. i use hopgaurd as treatment spring if needed and another roughly aug/sept, 2 hives died from not clustering and the other i can't explain, my other hives are doing good, i have found that local queens seem to do better at least from my hives types, another person that puts hives at my yard got package bees from the south and lost 4 out of 5 this year. i am not saying they are bad just telling you what has worked for my the last 2 years

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Clinton, Iowa
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    6,034

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    And that late with OAV in a hive that is raising it's winter bees... Plus not following the correct application timing...

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Mondamin, Iowa
    Posts
    309

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    Also some one who says "I don't think it was mites", Is not in a position to determine if their hive was healthy prior to winter. I also agree that it is not always mites...more then not it is bee keepers that think it will never be mites that end up killing their bees. The truth is that mites are a big enough problem that it should impact and have influence over everything you do out in the bee yard. From when you split to what type of bee breed you go with to how you mange comb and boxes and cell size and etc...do all these things work all the time..no but you gotta stack the deck and if you are not you are not playing for keeps.
    https://www.facebook.com/reapingselfreliance
    Number one killer of bees are beekeepers who wont read any bee books.

  5. #24
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Vernon, AZ. USA
    Posts
    627

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    Sept. treatments are likely not too late. But, treating 10 days apart, allows emerged mites to enter another cell before capping. 2/3 of the mites are in cells at any time. It's 3 treatments, 7 days apart., Do it on 3 Sundays after church if you can't remember any other way. If your timing is off you will mostly annoy your bees, rather than kill the mites

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Middletown, N.Y.
    Posts
    30

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    Dan,I think this may be correct. I treated in sept. Yeah, I will start in aug. this year and do 4 treatments every 7 days. I have 6 hives, they are alive, but yes I'm worried. It seemed because of the abnormal temps here in NY this past fall it was the right thing to do. I am sure i will find out. Does anyone recommend doing a treatment anytime now, if the temp is at least 45?

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Auburn, NY
    Posts
    678

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    Some on here will say treating with oxalic acid in winter is a great idea to come out of the winter with mite free or nearly so. If you have a few hives, a spray bottle full of mixture will do just right. I see temp where I am right now is 52. If I was near my hives and had the time I would be there with oxalic in hand.

    I tend to treat later than most on here also, due to the fact I think mites can re-populate a hive if the temps and conditions are correct. I lost one hive in late Oct/early Nov one year due to not treating. The second hive I had was in poor shape. I put MAQS on in late Nov/early Dec and the hive made it through. I think that is pushing it but it made it.

  8. #27

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan. NY View Post
    Some on here will say treating with oxalic acid in winter is a great idea to come out of the winter with mite free or nearly so. If you have a few hives, a spray bottle full of mixture will do just right. I see temp where I am right now is 52. If I was near my hives and had the time I would be there with oxalic in hand.

    I tend to treat later than most on here also, due to the fact I think mites can re-populate a hive if the temps and conditions are correct. I lost one hive in late Oct/early Nov one year due to not treating. The second hive I had was in poor shape. I put MAQS on in late Nov/early Dec and the hive made it through. I think that is pushing it but it made it.
    What if your delivery method of OA was a vaporizer? Would you still treat during the winter months if you had a break in the weather and temps were in the 40-50 degree range?

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Pottstown, Pennyslvania, USA
    Posts
    724

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuttingedgelandinc View Post
    What if your delivery method of OA was a vaporizer? Would you still treat during the winter months if you had a break in the weather and temps were in the 40-50 degree range?
    Definitely. I'll be OAVing a few today.
    Dan Boylan, When in doubt "It's mites".

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Norfolk County, MA, USA
    Posts
    231

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    We had extremely warm temps here in New England right into October treating for mites in September was fine. Remember beekeeping is local not so much global ..basics yes..weather not so much. Today was Tshirt day in downtown Boston and tommorrow we are getting snow so go figure.
    Think about it....Buy American

  11. #30

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    While I agree that September is generally not too late for treatments, I will be starting a little earlier this season. I may even do follow up treatments in September and October depending of course on mite counts and the weather. Looking back at my notes, my treatment dates were 9/12, 9/18 and 9/27. I believe that the weather played a major factor in my decision to hold off a little longer on the third treatment. In hindsight, I should have done a specific mite count and possibly followed up with another treatment. After consulting with my mentor whom came over to inspect my dead outs with me, neither of us suspect mites as the culprit. They were head first into comb which implies that they starved.

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Yuba County, California, USA
    Posts
    6,572

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    Winter bees go head first in comb, unhook thorax muscles from wings so the wings are disabled, then flex those muscles for up to 30 minutes at a time to create heat and so warm the comb and the brood and the cluster. Don't assume they starved 1/8 inch from stores, that don't even make sense. Weakened and sick winter bees from mismanaged varroa is my guess, but you won't know without a lab test or more thorough inspecting.
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  13. #32

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RayMarler View Post
    Winter bees go head first in comb, unhook thorax muscles from wings so the wings are disabled, then flex those muscles for up to 30 minutes at a time to create heat and so warm the comb and the brood and the cluster. Don't assume they starved 1/8 inch from stores, that don't even make sense. Weakened and sick winter bees from mismanaged varroa is my guess, but you won't know without a lab test or more thorough inspecting.
    Starving 1/8 inch from stores may not happen in warmer areas such as Sacramento but is not unheard of in colder climates such as mine. If daytime temps are conducive to them moving away from their food stores a quick drop in temps can prevent them from returning to an area with ample stores. We have had many days where daytime temps were in the high 30's low 40's followed by 10, 11 degrees at night with windchill values in the single digits. That is quite a fluctuation in temps in a relatively short amount of time.

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Yuba County, California, USA
    Posts
    6,572

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    Ah yes, of course I have no knowledge of beekeeping in Maine, and was out of line to be replying to your call for understanding in this instance. Good luck to you Maestro.
    Live real time bee chat, most evenings...
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  15. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Strafford County, NH
    Posts
    2,425

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    Can't bees freeze head first in comb without being sick first? Did they never used to do that before varroa?

    Not to belittle mites. They remind me of ticks, which have brought the scourge of Lyme disease in these parts.

  16. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Loranger, LA
    Posts
    59

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RayMarler View Post
    Ah yes, of course I have no knowledge of beekeeping in Maine, and was out of line to be replying to your call for understanding in this instance. Good luck to you Maestro.
    And again another. Cuttingedgelandinc, you can't reason with the "it was the mites!" crowd. You can't do it on this board. He throws a 20+ years on his little signature and he is right, period! Ha, ha, ha. Mites killed your bees!! Get that thru your head....ha, ha, ha

    Stick with your mentor my friend, you're much better off. Even a couple of local beekeepers so you can get a couple of views....

    I guess my rant is basically because when you come on a forum and people tell that something is absolute when they live several states away, well, it is irritaing. And well, on Ray Marler, I guess I was a little hard because he did say it was his guess, but then he followed up with a sarcastic statement which basically said it was not his guess and took offense to the OP's reply. But 20+ years, who are we to question. It was mites.....
    Last edited by ordy28; 02-05-2016 at 07:33 AM.

  17. #36
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Vernon, AZ. USA
    Posts
    627

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    Ordy28, that reminds me of someone i know, that buys new queens for most of his hives each year. He's got a raft of reasons for it, most nonsense, and nothing dissuades him. Basically, he just likes to do it. He won't even raise his own. I tried to tell him an easy way, he wouldn't hear it.. But somehow, he learned how to replace queens, and stopped learning beekeeping right there.

  18. #37

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    Listen, I appreciate all of the feedback that everyone has given and take what most say seriously. In my opinion there are no absolutes in beekeeping and no one person knows everything. I described my situation and used the knowledge on this board as well as local Beekeepers opinions to come to a somewhat rational decision as to why my bees had perished. Despite having treated late for mites neither I nor my mentor discovered any mites on the dead bees. Is it possible that the winter bees were effected by mites and as a result were weakened enough to contribute to their demise? Yes, I will not rule anything out at this point. Based on the knowledge of people in my area and the rapid rate that people are losing bees here, I take what they say very seriously. Many of them have 10,20, even 40 years of experience. Most of them at one point or another have seen bees starve very close to stores due to extreme temperature fluctuations. Different problems exist in different climates. As a prime example, last year we had a late spring frost that effected all of my neighbors strawberry plants yet mine were not affected. In my micro-climate, my strawberries are up on a hill and his are in a valley. He got frost and I did not. In essence, the distance of 400 or 500 yards made an incredible difference.
    Can this same thing happen to bees? I believe so. Some areas of the country are not prone to the same weather extremes as someone else might have. I have learn to accept that things vary greatly depending on many factors. This has led me to believe that just about anything can happen with bees. I wish others would be as open minded. We would all benefit to some degree.

  19. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Strafford County, NH
    Posts
    2,425

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuttingedgelandinc View Post
    In my opinion there are no absolutes in beekeeping and no one person knows everything.
    Correction: No one person knows everything, except we here on beesource.

    If you doubt that, just ask us. We'll tell you.

    I've heard the adage: Ask 10 beekeepers a question, you'll get 11 opinions. Well, it's really: Ask 10 beekeepers a question, you'll get 11 opinions, but only one will be right.

  20. #39
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Vernon, AZ. USA
    Posts
    627

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    I have had hives die, with bee heads stuck into crystalised honey. If their food is too hard to bring to the cluster, and its cold enough to paralise them, cant break cluster, the hive starves right on the filled combs. When this happened, it was certainly not starvation, but... it was after a week with some -45 windchill. So, do what they do in Minnesota, wrap those hives, foam in the tops, reduce the entries so on and so forth. Because what fits in one place does not fit in another.

  21. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Cullman, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    1,240

    Default Re: Lost Them!!!

    CuttingEdge, I am sorry for your loss. I hope you will not give up.
    Have you already cleaned up the hives? the advice to send to Maryland beelab is good.
    collecting a sample & examining about 100 or so bees with a magnifying glass & god light would also give some clues. I Maine, is it safe to assume you did wind breaks and wrapped or insulated?
    I went to feed one of my late summer splits last weekend, & also found what I believe to be soon, a dead out, but I still had some very week bees crawling around in it.
    absolutely no food present in the hive. live bees crawling around with their toungues hanging out.
    lots of very feeble bees. Magnifying glass insp found 3 or 4 mites in 100 bees.
    So I am not asking "what happened ?". take your pick, starved, Varoah, or even cold.
    In the end, it was "beekeeper error". But, this loss acceptable to me, one dink in the "bad bee yard" where I send "bad bees" to live or die as they will. two beside the dead appear to be ok.
    I did go back the next day, there was at least one undertaker bee hauling dead bees out of the dink, so who knows. the queen may be alive in there some where. if so , she will probably be a "virus carrier" or some thing. but I don't have to figure that out until i find the hive alive ... or not.
    My question, If these bees actually died from varoah vectored virus (virii ?) , how do I clean the equipment so as not to carry over problems for next season?
    Again, sorry for your loses. .... CE
    Started summer of 2013, just another new guy, tinkering with bees.

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