How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?
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  1. #1
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    Default How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    We give an awful lot of advice here about testing for mites, but I don't think I've heard much about nosema, and I'm wondering how many of our dead-out wintered hives can actually be attributed to nosema infections instead of mites. (Besides the fact that mites reduce overall immunities, of course.)

    A typical beekeeper can't really know if it's nosema because it needs to be tested in the lab, and how many beekeepers do that?

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    Any beekeeper that wishes to get a sample from his deadout to the Beltsville lab and have the service done for the cost of postage for that sample. Be a trendsetter.
    Quote Originally Posted by NewbeeInNH View Post
    We give an awful lot of advice here about testing for mites, but I don't think I've heard much about nosema, and I'm wondering how many of our dead-out wintered hives can actually be attributed to nosema infections instead of mites. (Besides the fact that mites reduce overall immunities, of course.)

    A typical beekeeper can't really know if it's nosema because it needs to be tested in the lab, and how many beekeepers do that?

  4. #3
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    Default Re: How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    Too late, but next time.

    I heard a suggestion to treat the hives prophylactically (phew, try spelling that one without a checker) with Fumagillin as they go into winter and not wait for nosema to rear its ugly head. I'm not particularly in that camp, but I do wonder if it would reduce winter dead-outs (in our northern climates). Altho I also read that Fumagillin is not effective against the ceranae strain.

    I don't know if nosema is given enough respect as a culprit.
    Last edited by NewbeeInNH; 01-28-2016 at 09:58 AM.

  5. #4
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    Default Re: How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    Quote Originally Posted by NewbeeInNH View Post
    A typical beekeeper can't really know if it's nosema because it needs to be tested in the lab, and how many beekeepers do that?
    A typical beekeeper can't really know it's mites from afar, but that doesn't stop attribution rates. I would encourage all to send in samples. The turn over rate for the results are decent, and it offers a window into their demise.
    Please excuse me, I am now free to go manage & treat ;)
    my ladies the best way I know how.

  6. #5
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    Default Re: How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    I would think that bee testing labs would want to test dead-outs to keep a finger on the pulse (or non-pulse...) of diseases/infestations occurring in our hives. I imagine if they knew the issues sweeping our apiaries and could let us know, we might all be better prepared.

  7. #6
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    Default Re: How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    Quote Originally Posted by NewbeeInNH View Post
    A typical beekeeper can't really know if it's nosema because it needs to be tested in the lab, and how many beekeepers do that?
    I do, bought a scope and check my bees spring and fall and in hives that are not doing well.

  8. #7
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    Default Re: How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    Quote Originally Posted by camero7 View Post
    I do, bought a scope and check my bees spring and fall and in hives that are not doing well.
    What percent are "not doing well" and what percent do you find have high nosema counts?

    Did you treat?

  9. #8
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    Default Re: How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    Quote Originally Posted by NewbeeInNH View Post
    We give an awful lot of advice here about testing for mites, but I don't think I've heard much about nosema, and I'm wondering how many of our dead-out wintered hives can actually be attributed to nosema infections instead of mites. (Besides the fact that mites reduce overall immunities, of course.)
    I agree, an underlying major factor

  10. #9
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    Default Re: How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vance G View Post
    Any beekeeper that wishes to get a sample from his deadout to the Beltsville lab and have the service done for the cost of postage for that sample. Be a trendsetter.
    I don't think I've ever gotten a report that distinguished between the types of nosema. But I think it's a good idea to send samples in when trying to determine the cause of a dead out. I send random apiary bee samples for testing 3 times a year to see if/when nosema is present. Beltsville also test for tracheal mites but none of my samples came back positive for those.

  11. #10
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    Default Re: How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    I've sent in samples twice to Beltsville when I had a lot of winter deadouts. They test for varroa, tracheal and Nosema. (My problem both times was Nosema) They do not distinguish between the two Nosemas. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but Nosema Apis causes observable dysentery whereas Nosema Ceranae does not.
    Lawrence Heafner
    15 hives; 17 years; TF for 12; Zone 7B

  12. #11
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    Default Re: How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    Quote Originally Posted by NewbeeInNH View Post
    I would think that bee testing labs would want to test dead-outs to keep a finger on the pulse (or non-pulse...) of diseases/infestations occurring in our hives. I imagine if they knew the issues sweeping our apiaries and could let us know, we might all be better prepared.
    How do you test deadouts for nosema infection?
    Mark Berninghausen

  13. #12
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    Default Re: How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    How do you test deadouts for nosema infection?
    Beltsville has instructions on their website. Send in dead bees, if not decayed, soaked in alcohol.
    Last edited by heaflaw; 01-28-2016 at 08:55 PM. Reason: forgot how to spell
    Lawrence Heafner
    15 hives; 17 years; TF for 12; Zone 7B

  14. #13
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    Default Re: How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    Quote Originally Posted by heaflaw View Post
    Beltsville has instructions on their website. Send in dead bees, if not decayed, soaked in alcohol.
    if you have staining in or on the hives and have a microscope, you can also test that for nosema.
    Last edited by wildbranch2007; 01-29-2016 at 06:31 AM.
    mike syracuse ny
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  15. #14
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    Default Re: How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlowerPlanter View Post
    What percent are "not doing well" and what percent do you find have high nosema counts?

    Did you treat?
    I've never treated for nosema. I've had a few high counts in the fall but almost never in the spring. Interestingly, in my hives, high nosema in worker bees does not translate to brood bees. And it has little to do with winter survival in my hives. Usually about 50% have high counts in the fall, seldom find any high counts in the spring. I was pretty worried about nosema until I bought a scope and started tracking it.

  16. #15
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    Default Re: How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    Interestingly, in my hives, high nosema in worker bees does not translate to brood bees.
    It just so happens it's Youtube Season, and I caught this interesting one on nosema from Univ. of FL yesterday.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMDN7r1SfbY

    In which he says that the spores build up in the gut over time, so maybe that's why you're not seeing it in your brood bees. I also wonder if your sickest older bees have died off by spring.

    I'm getting a little more worried about nosema than mites, but maybe I'm just watching too many horror flicks. Come on spring!

    (It also makes me wary of switching frames into different hives, for fear I'm spreading fungal spores. Anyone else think that way?)

  17. #16
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    Default Re: How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    Sick bees tend to fly off and die

  18. #17

    Default Re: How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    Little doubt in my mind that most bee colony collapse is the result of a combination of problems. Mites and the diseases they vector make the colony more susceptible to every other pressure...including nosema. As camero7 pointed out, hives with high spore counts can overwinter well....but then camero7 keeps his mites in check.
    I still believe that the number one enemy is varroa. They are relatively easy, even for a newcomer to check....as opposed to nosema. And if properly managed, in my experience the bees seem to handle everything else well...with a few exceptions...afb, high pesticide exposure, starvation, queen failures.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  19. #18
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    Default Re: How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    Yes, I monitor and treat mites when they reach my threshold [6 mites/300bees]. Mostly I only treat in the fall because I don't have those big spring numbers. I certainly agree with Dan... my biggest losses are starvation [getting stuck on brood and not moving to stores] and queen failure, which seems to be a bigger problem the last couple of years. I've never had AFB in my hives and I'm not in a high pesticide area with any of my yards...

  20. #19
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    Default Re: How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    Quote Originally Posted by camero7 View Post
    Sick bees tend to fly off and die
    Or, in the case of Nosena C., crawl off and die.
    I sometimes get a colony with crawlers, but no DWV that test high for Nosema.

    Second hand, so take it for what it's worth: Our club president and his mentor/partner sent live bees to a testing facility (in MT, I think). They had 400 of 1400 colonies dwindling or dead at pre-almond count three weeks ago (we're in WA state). Samples game back at 30 million spores per bee. Suggested treatment threshold is about 5 million per. Nosema was the predominate malady found, with varying levels of other virusus.
    Fidalgo Island
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  21. #20
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    Default Re: How many dead-outs are the result of the 2 types of nosema?

    My belief is that Nosema C is more problematic in warm weather areas than the cold north [unless you winter indoors] I don't get many crawlers in my hives and I've never approached that high a spore count. Wonder what their mite counts were?

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