Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    You have said that vaporizors tested greatly exceeded sublimation temperatures. Was this during sublimation or some unstated time after sublimation was completed but without disconnecting power?

    I found that most unregulated tray type vaporizors can have the power cut off some thirty seconds or so before sublimation is complete and there is enough heat in the mass of the tray to complete the process. Observation trial runs are suggested outside the hive where the process can be timed and observed. I suggest that the excessively high temperatures you mention would be the result of operator error.

    There is no question that the uncontrolled temperature models can become quite hot if left on for un-recommended periods of time. The power wattage, the mass of the unit, the area for heat dissipation, the amount of heat loss to handle, etc. will all affect the temperature curve during sublimation and the ultimate temperature reached before an equilibrium is reached.

    I feel that perhaps you may have painted with a broad brush in some of your statements and I would be interested in seeing the test parameters where it is assumed that the sublimation products were harmful or less effective. Ultimate temperature reached should not be a concern with proper use. Some of the assertions do sound a bit like sales pitch to talk up the value of an item being promoted. Advertising is well known for promoting the pros and cons of things that really are not very important in real life.
    Hi Mr.Crofter,
    To understand wich is better we need to understand what do we want, then we put pro and cons on the table and we choose, right? It's the same as deciding wich is the best car, and the answer will be"for what?", quality price, confort, offroad, etc, etc.
    So, if we have hundreds of beehives we are looking for something Fast, effective and with a competitive price, cause time is money, i would go on a Sublimox with eyes closed, it does fast treatments, IT HAS THE TEMPERATURE CONTROL, and you save a lot of time, i don't have it, but one of my colleagues at school works with it and he's very happy about it, so, thumbs up for Sublimox in this category, completely agree with fatshark.

    For amateurs, like myself, i want something with a good quality/price, good specs and tough enough to work a lot of times.
    Talking about models that approximately have the same price, i discovered this Oxalika that i like, why? Same price as the others, like Varrox etc, internal temperature control like the professional ones, doesn't even waste so much battery cause it works at lower temperature, looks good and it works good, and again, i don't take money either from Sublimox or Oxalika, you can go on the websites to check both of them:

    http://www.icko-apiculture.com/en/su..._from_store=fr

    http://www.talitha-info.com/epages/138950.sf/en_GB/?ViewObjectPath=%2FShops%2F138950%2FProducts%2F"12 0%2FE"

    The difference is obviously on the price 390 euros vs 187 euros.
    Fair enough?

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  3. #42
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    Default Re: Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    SteveHive, as an engineer have you any idea of the calories required to boil off the water of crystallization and the calories required to sublimate a gram of oxalic acid basically the latent heat required. As just another idiot making observations I have studied the vapor leaving the heated devices and have found it contains mostly crystals of oxalic acid as formic and co2 would not be in crystal form. Furthermore I have now taken to using a 3M paper mask when vaporizing and contrary to popular belief I am still alive and well. I believe that the latent heat required by the oxalic acid does not allow the small devices to break down the acid. I have built temperature controlled devices and have seen the temperatures fall like a stone when the OA is added. So there is a great deal of assumption out there but you tell me how it is that there is no trace of formic or oxalic acids through a plain particulate paper mask.
    Johno
    Hi Mr.johno, i don't think you are an idiot, can i suggest you to have a look at this paper? http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jp9638191
    this is the best thing i found on scientific literature, can i ask you what is the contrast method you used for checking the mask? Have you put the mask on a forced air tube over the heating plate, i should understand in wich conditions you did this experiment, if you want, if you want to discuss far more tech i could give you my email so maybe we can exchange some test data, what do you think?

  4. #43
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    Default Re: Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    SteveHive, I have used the oxalica type of vaporizer for some years an although it kept my mite count down every now and then there would be fried bees in the pan and now and then some would look like a possible fried queen so was always looking for a better mouse trap. After seeing some European videos on sublimox types of vaporizers I have built my own with temperature and without temperature control and have found the quality of the vapor is far better than with the pan type. After an initial heating up period hives can be treated in a minute or less from a small hole behind the hive and I can do my hives without wearing a veil and in less than half the time of the pan type and no dead bees in the pan. The details on this vaporizer can be found in this section under 'Band heater vaporizer" and the cost of components is roughly $15 for without a temp cont. to about $40 with a Mypin temp controller.
    Johno

  5. #44
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    Default Re: Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    SteveHive, I have used the oxalica type of vaporizer for some years an although it kept my mite count down every now and then there would be fried bees in the pan and now and then some would look like a possible fried queen so was always looking for a better mouse trap. After seeing some European videos on sublimox types of vaporizers I have built my own with temperature and without temperature control and have found the quality of the vapor is far better than with the pan type. After an initial heating up period hives can be treated in a minute or less from a small hole behind the hive and I can do my hives without wearing a veil and in less than half the time of the pan type and no dead bees in the pan. The details on this vaporizer can be found in this section under 'Band heater vaporizer" and the cost of components is roughly $15 for without a temp cont. to about $40 with a Mypin temp controller.
    Johno
    Sounds good! I know that the Sublimox type are better, the only big problem is the price, if you achieved the construction of one at that cost, you got it ;-) for now i'm quite happy with the one that i have, but if i'll have time, i'll surely build one, good day!

  6. #45
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    Default Re: Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveHive View Post
    Sounds good! I know that the Sublimox type are better, the only big problem is the price, if you achieved the construction of one at that cost, you got it ;-) for now i'm quite happy with the one that i have, but if i'll have time, i'll surely build one, good day!
    You did get a bit of a grilling in regard to some of the statements about the oxalika but that may have be manufacturers findings or assumptions rather than your own. Some of the issues related have been hashed out at length here on the forum. Some units with high temperature heated air under the tray and forming the delivery stream have apparently given some concern about delivered product approaching decomposition temperatures but there are a lot of factors to consider in delivering any kind of "hard facts" description of what actually is occurring and what the implications are.

    The Oxalika does look like a well put together unit and the temperature control would go a long way towards making OA vaporization "idiot proof". Personally I would be a bit hesitant about the the potential failure points of the temperature probe and electronic controls, but if it was going to be used by students or non technically inclined people that would be the way to go.

    The price factor of this unit compared to others at your location make it quite reasonable choice for you. I wonder what the cost would be to purchase in the USA or Canada.
    Frank

  7. #46
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    Default Re: Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Once again, you're missing the point. Well constructed vaporizers (such as the Varrox, Heilyser, Varrocleaner, VarroVap) are designed to sublimate the OA before it decomposes. No timer or Temperature control (just more items to break) is necessary on these wand type vaporizers and bees don't "attack" them... While I'm guessing the "Oxalika" is a quality vaporizer, as you stated...it too "cooks" bees.


    As to the efficacy of these non-temperature controlled wand type units, the mite drops speak volumes.
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!

  8. #47
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    Feb 2012
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    Default Re: Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    I own the Varrox and like it a lot but the speed improvement of not needing to cool down the unit between shots is very interesting. Reading through this, I think johno mentioned the temperature of the pan of his home made version of the sublimox/provap "drops like a rock" when the OA is dumped into it.
    Has anyone tried using the Varrox like an Oxalika? I know it's not listed in the instructions but maybe a partial cooling by unhooking it from the battery briefly or maybe a 2g dump would cool it enough as the water boils out of the OA? snl, any data or technique tweaks?

  9. #48
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    Default Re: Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    I own the Varrox and like it a lot but the speed improvement of not needing to cool down the unit between shots is very interesting. Reading through this, I think johno mentioned the temperature of the pan of his home made version of the sublimox/provap "drops like a rock" when the OA is dumped into it.
    Has anyone tried using the Varrox like an Oxalika? I know it's not listed in the instructions but maybe a partial cooling by unhooking it from the battery briefly or maybe a 2g dump would cool it enough as the water boils out of the OA? snl, any data or technique tweaks?

  10. #49
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    Default Re: Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    For the Varrox, if you own and wear a good mask, you could operate it “hot” continuously, many do. It helps if the hives are close to one another. When you remove the Varrox (still connected to the battery) from the first hive, be prepared to add the OA to the pan for the next hive. Add the OA to the pan and IMMEDIATELY insert the vaporizer into the hive as it will start to vaporize on contact. You can continuously do this as long as you don’t dither between hives as the temperature of the Varrox will continue to rise. It helps to have a helper, one to vaporize the other to have the next scoop of OA ready and to move the battery/wires etc.
    Know you MUST move quickly between hives. If for any reason you need to pause, disconnect the vaporizer or dunk it in water to cool.
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!

  11. #50
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    Feb 2012
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    Athens, Georgia, USA
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    Default Re: Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    For the Varrox, if you own and wear a good mask, you could operate it “hot” continuously, many do. It helps if the hives are close to one another. When you remove the Varrox (still connected to the battery) from the first hive, be prepared to add the OA to the pan for the next hive. Add the OA to the pan and IMMEDIATELY insert the vaporizer into the hive as it will start to vaporize on contact. You can continuously do this as long as you don’t dither between hives as the temperature of the Varrox will continue to rise. It helps to have a helper, one to vaporize the other to have the next scoop of OA ready and to move the battery/wires etc.
    Know you MUST move quickly between hives. If for any reason you need to pause, disconnect the vaporizer or dunk it in water to cool.
    Thank you very much! Yes, I have a full face respirator with the appropriate cartridge.

  12. #51
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    Default Re: Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    You can speed things up quit a bit by not cooling the tray types completely. Wet sponge or rag till it just stops sizzling and you can dump in your charge and it will start to melt but no smoke yet, while you poke it into the hive. If you time its boil off period you can pull the unit out and reclose the entrance blocker.

    It is not nearly as fast as the ProVap type but much better than some of the directions for the tray type units that would result in a 15 minute operation for each hive.
    Frank

  13. #52
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    Default Re: Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    The only problem I think when adding OA to a very hot open pan is the possibility of the OA being displaced from the pan from the vigorous boiling that will take place as the OA is not contained in a deep container. There have been some beekeepers mentioning the fact that the OA had not sublimed and was mostly around the edges of the pan and that I think could have been caused by the boiling of the OA.
    Johno

  14. #53
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    Default Re: Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by Riskybizz View Post
    I have been checking out some of the oxalic acid vaporizers. One is "The Super Oxalic Acid Vaporizer" $79.99 as advertised on EBay. Its made in the USA and appears to be pretty heavy duty. Just wondering if anyone has used this machine or any other recommendations.

    So RiskyBizz, What did you end up getting ? From reading different opinions, I am thinking I may purchase a Varrox. Seems like it would be tough and durable, and works well which are important features to me.

  15. #54
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    Default Re: Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Hi everybody! nice to be here, I had a look around and after some thought i decided to buy the "Oxalika Premium" model ., considering that me and my husband had a couple of Varrox i have to say that there have been a couple of things that now make me strongly suggest the Italian Oxalika to EVERYBODY. First of all, it looks and feels super tough! My varrox looks like a toy in comparison! Second point, you just fly through the hives since you don't have to cool it down because of the temperature control, i simply don't worry about anything apart from putting the OA on the plate. That takes me 40 secs per hive and varroa falls like a dream! And last but not least, the company is just on another level of expertise, i forgot my vaporizer in the field and my husband drove on it unexpectedly with the tractor, the handle and some other things broke, i called the company, sent it and received it completely repaired! the guy told me that they have all the pieces and its build in a way that you can replace each component easily without having to buy a new one! My relatives from US bought it too and are super happy with that, they found it at Dadant's shop, even the guy there was happy to promote it. I hope that my personal experience could help somebody! Enjoy the spring everyone!

  16. #55
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    Default

    Just so everyone knows, the output voltage of a fully charged 12-volt lead acid battery is
    11.2 volts. They charge at 13.75 volts. If you are hooked up to a vehicle, it's better if it isn't running if you are using a glow plug type vaporizer.
    I want bees that make up for my mistakes.

  17. #56
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    Default Re: Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    When I'm doing my winter treatments with my Varrox and the temps are down near the lower limits of possibility (which IIRC is 37F) I preheat the unit a bit before charging and inserting.

    Of course, I ALWAYS have my mask on.

    But I found I got a better and more complete burn during the prescribed time if I start with a slightly warmed pan. For example after I have dunked and then wiped the unit dry and clean from the previous hive, I measure out the dose for the next one and set the spoon on the hive platform. Then I connect the second lead (the other one is never disconnected) and hold the pan in my bare hand. In a few seconds it will feel warm to my touch - certainly warmer than the outside air at the time. I have the hive ready for treatment and as soon as the wands gets feeling hottish I dump the OA in, and immediately stick the wand in hive and start the timer.

    BTW all my winter stacks are four boxes high so I need to cook off a full teaspoon in each burn, which is at outer limit of what will work in colder temps in the Varrox.

    In warmer weather I don't do this, and frankly since the "temperature control" on the pre-heating stage is my bare skin, I am probably just getting the pan temp up to the air temp of a really hot summer day. Certainly it is more tolerable on my bare skin than the water straight out of my DHWH, which is set at 140 F.

    Nancy

  18. #57
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    Default Re: Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Gnor I think you should do some studying as regards lead acid batteries and you could find that a fully charged 12 volt battery voltage is at 12.6 volts and is fully discharged at 11.2 volts. Battery charger out put voltages can vary dependent on the type of lead acid battery being charged but generally finish at 14.2 volts.

  19. #58
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    Default Re: Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    Gnor I think you should do some studying as regards lead acid batteries and you could find that a fully charged 12 volt battery voltage is at 12.6 volts and is fully discharged at 11.2 volts. Battery charger out put voltages can vary dependent on the type of lead acid battery being charged but generally finish at 14.2 volts.
    Yes, John, I have owned a multi-meter for many years and have serviced my own batteries for several decades. Unhook the charger, let it sit for an hour, then check the voltage. If you are going to be rude, don't reply to this or I will report you.
    I want bees that make up for my mistakes.

  20. #59
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    Default Re: Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    That's a good idea, although the inside of the hive may be a bit warmer than the outside air temp. Just used my brand new Heilyser the other day. Much better than my homemade one which was starting to give up the ghost on me. It produces a lot more vapor from the same dose of OA, and doesn't boil over onto the bottom board.
    When I set mine up, I installed an inline switch in the cord, about 3 feet back from the unit. That would work well for what you do, IMHO. I think I will do the pre-heat thing too. I dip mine in water to cool it, and a pre-warming would dry it out nicely.
    I'm still messing with it. I may borrow the turkey baster and just fill the cup with water to cool it.
    What does everyone use to seal the entrance with? I'm just collecting our old tea towels and promising to buy new ones.
    I want bees that make up for my mistakes.

  21. #60
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    Default Re: Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    I need to buy a new vaporizer for working a bit faster than a varrox like type, I found this new one yesterday, anybody that knows it?

    https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ry=oxalika+pro

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